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[KeithHernandez]

I was drunk, but my point a couple pages ago was that the only reason for him not to tell is because of christian morals.  I was apologizing because I thought he was wrong and said it bluntly.  This message is for that one guy who handled assbar with the utmost class and dignity.

[Ben-San]

I know a couple of trans folks but they're trans folks in the science-fiction fan community, which means that "was formerly a dude, is now a lady" pales in comparison to "believes she is from Atlantis".

There is a large tolerance for weirdness in this subculture, is my point.

[jay-ell]

I split the autism stuff (missed one) and tried to split off the transgender stuff because this thread was getting hard to follow...but apparently my trying to split the same thread more than once in a row made things weird.  Later, perhaps. 

[AlohaDawg]

I oughta clarify here that Christian Morals isn't really factored into my question. If it were, I wouldn't probably let this slip on a message board. And although I'm not as outraged as Ash (thanks for getting my back, dude) it is a little puzzling to get that particular response to a sincere question about a serious issue.

I guess I eventually processed my feelings and answered my own question with a much longer post later; one thing that we parents try to do is to move our kids along in a direction that we hope makes their lives that much better than ours in every possible way. Do I have deep seated issues about going to hell because I had a baby out of wedlock? No. We stayed together and made an excellent family. I would be far more deserving of condemnation if I were to kick the mom and baby to the curb, which happens with much more alarming frequency and with obviously greater societal cost and bad personal outcomes.  Do I want my daughter to have kids before she gets married? No. Will I love her if she does? Yes. Will I love my grandkids? Yes. Was I born out of wedlock? Yes. Do I feel less valuable because of that? I may have at angst-ridden points in my life, but not now.

I don't want that (having kids outside of marriage) to seem like a thing to do to her 8 year-old mind because it will eventually be an 18 year old mind.  I want to her to think about college, marriage, career and children in some order that places college first and marriage before children because I know that formula works really well. Even if I didn't live that way. I wish I had.

[Nabubrush]

Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, bubby. Fix one and work on living with the other.

I could be in trouble here.

Wait, no, I'm ok. I can live with being drunk. I'm only drunk half the time, after all.

[AugustWest]

Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, bubby. Fix one and work on living with the other.

Dude, now all you have to do is throw up on Dean Wormer!

[KeithHernandez]

Well I guess I thought the only reason he didn't want her to know is because he raised her to believe that it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage or whatever.  In which case he is just creating a problem for himself.  But yeah, I guess there are a lot of reasons to not want your kid to have kids before marriage, mainly do to age, stuff you already listed, etc.  Sorry again. 

One other thing, see I was raised in the "buckle of the bible belt" so I kind of have a chip on my shoulder.  Lots of people where I am from do really, really dumb things in the name of god.  So yeah, sometimes I see things a little differently.  I am trying to come to grips with the fact that Christianity is a decent religion that teaches good things to the vast majority of its subscribers, it is just that my personal experiences do not really support that.

Anyhow, for what it is worth, please tell your kid the truth. 

[Nabubrush]

You know, since I don't have kids and don't really realte to traditional mores vis-a-vis the way people relate to other people in a romantic way, it always comes out of left field for me that having a child out of wedlock is an issue. I mean, how many gay couples have children out of wedlock? The only thing about that situation that bothers me is that some of them would like to be in wedlock and can't be.

Maybe you can tell the child that you folks were protesting the fact that some people cannot get married to who they want to in this country. Of course, you'd have to tell them you threw the towel in after a while.

[AlohaDawg]

You know, since I don't have kids and don't really realte to traditional mores vis-a-vis the way people relate to other people in a romantic way, it always comes out of left field for me that having a child out of wedlock is an issue. I mean, how many gay couples have children out of wedlock? The only thing about that situation that bothers me is that some of them would like to be in wedlock and can't be.

Maybe you can tell the child that you folks were protesting the fact that some people cannot get married to who they want to in this country. Of course, you'd have to tell them you threw the towel in after a while.

Too many other complex issues to explain once I open that can of worms....interesting thought, though.

[jay-ell]

Sometimes I'm afraid that, the way things are going, I'm going to have to explain to my son why we waited until after we were married four years to have him.  Most of my friends my age who have kids concieved their first before marriage.  Our family is the exception.  When I tell my kids that we were both virgins on our wedding night, they will probably laugh at me. 

[linnea]

Also, any chance I get to educate people about Mrs. Roosevelt's lesbian lover is a chance to do some good in the world. 
Education. 

Kelli said that she saw a photo of Eleanor Roosevelt on a yacht or something wearing a huuuuge rock of an engagement ring, and there was another young woman next to her. Both of them look devastated or at least really forlorn. She said the caption says nothing about her companion, whom kelli suspects was her lover, but the caption only mentioned the engagement ring. Do you know about that? Is that the same lady?

Also, smells, you hell of got a tiny can for that post. Awesome.

[jay-ell]

I don't know the photo, but based on my suspicions about the timing of it -- pre-marriage to Franklin?  The other woman could not have been her lover.  She didn't meet Lorena Hickock until well after she was married -- I believe they met during FDR's presidential campaign, actually. 

[wombat]

When I tell my kids that we were both virgins on our wedding night, they will probably laugh at me. 

No, they will be too busy feeling ill because you have made them think about their parents having sex.