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[RMJ12345]

Anyone else read Savage Love this week? 

I used to read that all the time.

I want to be clear, btw, I do not think that most trans people are making it up or faking it for attention. Most of the time, if someone has the bravery to make a statement as...controversial as that, I believe them and commend them for being able to come forward and be themselves. I know trans and genderqueer people whose gender identity I have no problem with. I just don't believe that it's a decision that can or should be made in a couple months, as was the case with this individual, and with their pattern of doing or claiming shocking things for attention, it's just not passing my BS detector.

[littlefallsmets]

Probably, like, 80% of the people I've known/interacted with who've laid claim to gender identity issues either had legitimate identity issues or were gay folk honestly trying to figure out what the hell was the deal with their wantin' to do gay stuff.

And those folks, man, I wish 'em the best. Whatever makes 'em happy, if it isn't hurting anybody else, Fievel says penisltov.

But then there's another 20% of that population who were just deeply twisted people who've re and re and reinvented themselves ten thousand times out of severe psychological problems and were glomming onto the idea of being trans as another path toward escaping themselves.

All I'm saying is... I think your friend is in that other 20%.

[AlohaDawg]

A few years ago Johns Hopkins did a major study of Transexuals who underwent gender reassignment. If I remember right, one of the major conclusions was that although all were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, went through counseling and the long process of living as the other gender prior to undergoing the operation, years after the operation, measures of general life happiness, satisfaction and well-being did not significantly improve.

I guess the question is in a situation like this, where there is not a physically life threatening condition, could be whether it makes more sense to explore therapeutic options to gender dysphoria.  I think that cases of insurance or the State paying for reassignment are very few, so the individual can pay for reassignment - so any issue of impact on others (in terms of tax money or premiums) is minimal. I'm asking a question more than making a statement here.

If the individual is basically equally unhappy before and after the procedures, and the only difference is that now they are able to identify physically and legally as the other gender, is that successful as an intervention? 

[Nabubrush]

A few years ago Johns Hopkins did a major study of Transexuals who underwent gender reassignment. If I remember right, one of the major conclusions was that although all were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, went through counseling and the long process of living as the other gender prior to undergoing the operation, years after the operation, measures of general life happiness, satisfaction and well-being did not significantly improve.

I guess the question is in a situation like this, where there is not a physically life threatening condition, could be whether it makes more sense to explore therapeutic options to gender dysphoria.  I think that cases of insurance or the State paying for reassignment are very few, so the individual can pay for reassignment - so any issue of impact on others (in terms of tax money or premiums) is minimal. I'm asking a question more than making a statement here.

If the individual is basically equally unhappy before and after the procedures, and the only difference is that now they are able to identify physically and legally as the other gender, is that successful as an intervention? 

I would say it wasn't successful as an intervention but it was something that was valid to do in the hope that it might be. They can point out the statistics, but if some were happier . . . if I was in this situation and the doctors said that usually the people weren't any happier afterwards than before, i think I would still try because it might work out for me.

[Doc]

At the end of the day it's got to be an individual's choice, as something that personal can only be.
I'm sure some people after taking such an insanely life changing path find they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be but if we are to be free we must have the freedom to fail.

[side_show]

Yeah, AD that's a tough one.

I heard about this study a while back related to a local case I have some indirect ties to.  Anyway... the two things I think about related to the study are this:

1) No matter what surgery can do, one will always know what used to be, will still carry the psychological ramifications of a previous lifetime "lost."

2) Socially, people who have been gender-reassigned face persecution to the extreme.  While things might be improving, the final truth is that a trans person likely faces a lifetime as a marginalized member of the larger community.    

While I can see the social ramifications of gender reassignment improving over time as understanding among the general populous increases, I don't see the internal termoil as all the "fixable."  We probably all have one or more trauma's form our past that we can't escape, and while we can cope, we know some scars never heal.  When you're hard wired from as far back as memory goes back to believe you are a deeply, deeply flawed individual and meet with violent verification of this constantly through out your life, I don't see that being something that you can truly removed from your identity.  Gender reassignment is ethically very tricky.  I find it fascinating.  Probably one far off day medicine will find a way to recognize and deal with it earlier on, which I think will make the prognosis a lot better for those who face it.

[jay-ell]

I think a better test would be, how many come to regret the surgery ten, fifteen, or twenty years later? 

Money doesn't buy happiness either, but I wouldn't regret winning the lottery. 

[side_show]

Oh yeah - AD, where did you find the study?  I know I actually read it back in the day and I seem to recall that though the happiness of patients didn't necessarily increase, that the majority reported overall satisfaction and had responded to the inquire as to if, given the result, they'd do it again, that the great majority would still choose gender reassignment.

[Nabubrush]

While I can see the social ramifications of gender reassignment improving over time as understanding among the general populous increases, I don't see the internal termoil as all the "fixable."  We probably all have one or more trauma's form our past that we can't escape, and while we can cope, we know some scars never heal.  When you're hard wired from as far back as memory goes back to believe you are a deeply, deeply flawed individual and meet with violent verification of this constantly through out your life, I don't see that being something that you can truly removed from your identity.  Gender reassignment is ethically very tricky.  I find it fascinating.  Probably one far off day medicine will find a way to recognize and deal with it earlier on, which I think will make the prognosis a lot better for those who face it.

I think it's just that, for folks who truly feel they need gender reassignment, unless you feel that what they really need without realizing it is intensive therapy and/or drug regimens, the best option would be reassignment, even if it doesn't fix everything. I'm not surprised that there are ongoing problems, for a person who believes they were born the wrong gender. Although I was about to say it's kind of like the folks who want limbs cut off, and then I realized it's exactly like that except that I think they shouldn't be cutting off limbs and that it's crazy, and I think trans folks aren't quite, somehow.

Hmm, maybe I actually don't know everything. This is a bit distressing.

[jay-ell]

Although I was about to say it's kind of like the folks who want limbs cut off, and then I realized it's exactly like that except that I think they shouldn't be cutting off limbs and that it's crazy, and I think trans folks aren't quite, somehow.

Hmm, maybe I actually don't know everything. This is a bit distressing.

Pedro and I had this discussion recently.  I can't explain why, exactly, either, but I think that cutting off perfectly functional limbs is wrong, while turning a perfectly functional c*ck into a semi-functional pu$$y is OK. 

[RMJ12345]

I think it's just that, for folks who truly feel they need gender reassignment, unless you feel that what they really need without realizing it is intensive therapy and/or drug regimens, the best option would be reassignment, even if it doesn't fix everything. I'm not surprised that there are ongoing problems, for a person who believes they were born the wrong gender. Although I was about to say it's kind of like the folks who want limbs cut off, and then I realized it's exactly like that except that I think they shouldn't be cutting off limbs and that it's crazy, and I think trans folks aren't quite, somehow.

Hmm, maybe I actually don't know everything. This is a bit distressing.

I generally think that people should be allowed to do as they please with their bodies, including people who want to be amputees and this friend of mine.

Actually, if this individual were to go through with gender reassignment surgery and get his tits chopped off, I would respect him more - maybe he actually did mean it this time. It's none of my business anyway.