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[Arachno-capitalist]

Ok, so what is the criteria?  Geographic?  If I'm a native of the area between the Caucausus and the Pacific Ocean?  Therefore Turks and Japanese are racially equivalent?

Or is it a skin tone thing?  What is the exact epidermically reflected wavelength that divides a "Black" from a "White"?  Where do albinos fit in?  Or over-zealous tanners?
 
Ah.  The appeal to authority.  Let's see how you respond to an analogous argument.

Many well known and degreed political and economic scholars (e.g.Marx, Engels and Lenin) agree that communism is a useful and effective system for running a country.  Therefore it must be true.

OK, fair enough.  If you can't give me your own definition of "race", give me the current definition approved by the folks with many letters after their names.

1. If the subjects self-identified their ethnicity, then I would suggest you ask them how they arrived at their conclusions. Notice Ive never said anything about skin color, only other people here have.
2. Yes, I think its wise to refer to authority as opposed to uninformed opinions or emotions. And while it was cute to bring up communism, neither Marx, Lenin, or Engels were economists. Marx and Lenin were trained as lawyers. In fact, in an appeal to authority, you'd be hard pressed to find a modern trained economist who seriously backs up Marxism. On the other hand, there are plenty of trained social scientists who recognize differences in ethnicity.

[JorgeFabregas]

This guy just apologized for what he said.

[CortJstr]

This guy just apologized for what he said.

Well sort of. I think he mainly was claiming that he was misquoted.

[JorgeFabregas]

Well, he didn't exactly say that either. Sort of a non-denial denial.

[littlefallsmets]

Well, yes... but...

If you're an Esteemed Thinker who's starting to go dotty, man, you should've had the good sense to surround yourself with handlers that would help you protect your legacy once you started to go dotty, years and years ago.

Now his legacy is basically fucked as his name and his statement will be repeated fifteen million times in poorly-mimeographed manifestos by white supremacists, using his previous pedigree in combination with his old-man confusion of his hard-science knowledge with soft-science that he knows dick-all about to support their bullshit claims.

And even if it won't be what he's remembered for, it'll be the last thing about him that's remembered.

And that's sad as hell.

For better or for worse, man, if you're famousfamous and you're getting old, get yourself some fuckin' handlers.

If only on retainer. Jesus.

[Lister]

Every now and then we forget he's a troll.

[littlefallsmets]

Every now and then we forget he's a troll.

CFT!

CANNED FOR TRUTH!

[Arachno-capitalist]

CFT!

CANNED FOR TRUTH!

Me? Really? Sorry for, you know, having opinions and engaging in substantive dialog. My bad.

[side_show]

Hmmm...

troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

Where as A-CAP is posting about something he truly believes, and what he believes happens to be different from the general populous of the board.  I think you're getting a little cushy if you call this trolling.  Having different beliefs from the general populous of the board doesn't make a troll, intentional derision does, and I'm not seeing it here.  Differing points of view make things interesting, arguing makes things annoying.  Keep it real, yo.

Trolling looks more like this: "FUK U - NIGGAZ IZ STUPID.  ASIANS R SMARTER, BUT HAVE SMALL DICKS.  IT IZ THE TRUTH.  sCIENTISTS AGREE!"

I am not injecting my opinion on the topic at hand into this thread, mostly because I disagree with everyone on some point or other.  I am bringing with my madd MOD skillz.  So please try to keep this in the vein of civil discussion.

[jay-ell]

I've been entertained by this discussion, although I've stayed out of it.  I don't see a problem with the way A-CAP has stated his opinions, even if I disagree with the content of those opinions.  I think he's been pretty respectful of other people's arguments.  Let's not devolve into name-calling and flame wars.  I will NOT hesitate to LOCK AND/OR DELETE this thread if you can't behave yourselves.  Let's keep this a place where we can have discussions of our differences without splitting up into factions and making personal attacks. 

Just backing you up there, s_s.  Way to bring the strong sack. 

[littlefallsmets]

Well... we'll just say then that I guess my definition of "trolling" is more broad than you ladies' definition... but since (a.) y'all are the senior members here and (b.) I like not making attractive women angry, I'll back offa this one.

My definition of trolling doesn't just mean... people who are only in a place to troll, it also encompasses people who are productive members of a community most of the time but... occasionally and on certain subjects... take contrary positions, maintain contrary positions and refuse to budge even a little, just to rile people up and stir up trouble.

Mr. Ennewhy isn't doing that... 80-85% of the time.

But there are times wherein it seems like he takes a position just to "rile up the lefties" and then nail it home over... and over... and over... never conceding even the most obvious points (i.e. hard sciences like genetics and soft pseudo-sciences like cultural anthropology having nothing to do with each other)... just to get peoples' danders up.

In my internet handbook, you can be a part-time troll when it tickles your fancy to be... and then, when your fancy don't need tickling, be a normal and healthy part of the discussion... and in fact, that can enhance the effectiveness of the trolling when you do it.

Like as if to say "Aw man, he can't be trolling, here's three conversations about music a week ago where he was just talkin' with folk"... creating a complication that protects one from being immediately accused of fightin' just to fight.

I should know. I've done that on other boards m'self. haha.

[theinevitable]

soft pseudo-sciences like cultural anthropology

!!!!

[littlefallsmets]

Cultural anthropology can be rad, inev. However, it is not like hard science in any way. It is a shifting set of gray-scaled assumptions, it is a platter on a stack of turtles and it is turtles all the damn way down.

Apples and oranges, trying to co-relate a science and a... way of thinking, pseudo-science is probably a bit harsh/incorrect but... yeah. A discipline.

A gene can be measured, sequenced, quantified, etc.

Cultural anthropology can be infered, extrapolated, compared, etc.

They're basically incompatible concepts, there's almost no overlap.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Well LFM, I cant apologize if my true beliefs "rile you up". I think my position on things in the world has been focused and even predictable at this point. While engaging in discussion with people I would not otherwise have the chance to hear is something I enjoy, I don't remember a time when I've just made up some belief to bother people. I'll take the high road here and leave you as the only person here who has taken a genuine debate to the level of personal insults.

[KeithHernandez]

Isn't that a personal insult?

It always seemed to me that people who say that kind of stuff are themselves making personal attacks in a way.  Now if you would have said, like, that is a personal attack, then it would not be.  But you are using his attacks against you personally to discredit his position without defending your position, which is definitely some type of fallacy. 

I like you both and don't care, I've got to take LFM's side here, but you know, this issue isn't going to make me hate you or nothing (actually, this is the type of issue that does make me seriously hate people in real life, but I don't think NY is arguing for racism or whatever), I have just always thought saying stuff like what A-CAP just said is another version of a personal attack.

Either way, you aren't going to change anybodies mind anymore, so whatever.  (I brought up this one incident here were me and someone got into an argument and then he attacked me and then accused me of attacking him when I didn't  (at all, it is al there to see) and then everyone supported him because of seniority, but instead I deleted it and am going to go drink and watch the Red Sox after a long day of recovering from last nights parties and reading.)  Edit:  with this last part I was trying to say let it go, but that part never came out.  Also, go Red Sox.