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[Arachno-capitalist]

Rather than potentially hijack the "Today I am going to" thread I thought Id prematurely split to this.
Today I spent half an hour on the phone with my local Teamsters Union president. See, they sent a letter to my home that I do not currently occupy that said either I pay them hundreds of dollars in dues and fees or they will suspend/terminate me from my current employment at Anheuser-Busch. So I now understand why I havent been assigned work the past few weekends. I called him and immediately said what he was doing amounted to extortion. Either I pay this man hundreds of dollars, or I dont work. His response was that the wage I earn is due to his union's negotiation. My response was that I am currently earning Zero dollars an hour because of his union. And when I asked for him to gaurentee more shifts so that Id be able to pay his dues and earn saving, his response was "I have no control over whether you get work or not". This is obviously a lie. His union has prevented me from getting work in two ways. It has told my employer I cant work until I pay my dues, and second it has inflated my wage above my optimal range. I would be willing to work for half my current negotiated wage if it meant getting work every weekend as opposed to my current Zero dollars wage.
Either I pay this man hundreds of dollars or I cant work = extortion.

[wombat]

You have to pick your battles in life. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, this is one you can't win. Either pay the dues or get into a different line of work.

Speaking as someone who's worked at a lot of very different things - there are a lot of choices out there. It's easier to find a situation that fits you than to change a situation that doesn't.

[theinevitable]

yeah, don't unions basically own New York? I feel like I've heard that.

[littlefallsmets]

Sometimes we gotta take it in the pooper so that everyone else can have it a little bit less horribly.

But... ultimately... it is good that a lot of people have it a little bit less horribly.

Ain't no perfect system nowhere nohow.

Yes, unions like that are deifinitely corrupt in minor and petty ways but it is much better than how the system was without unions, where they could basically pay children a dollar a day to do most of the jobs and if the child died, the parents had to pay THEM the cost of training a new child.

Ain't no perfect system but, seriously, having a slightly corrupt union around to beat The Bastards back is a far far better option than, like, Triangle Sewing Factory fires, man.

[littlefallsmets]

One or two people getting shoved out of a position by an organization that functions so that the company can't undercut their employees... with the endgame being that the people who do work there earn an actual living wage? Hell yes.

Look, unions exist so that single parties CAN'T take the job for an extraordinarily below-value wage because they're just starting out or they don't have a family to support or whatever... which starts a wage-slashing spiral that "trickles down" into paying people a bag of wheat a day to do a job that, because of unionization, actually can provide for a lower-middle-class family of four or whatever.

When "competition" is a huge corporation that holds all the cards seeing who will do the job for the least, the entire of the workforce suffers.

When free-market competition reaches the endgame of consolidated power, of a few business interests running an entire segment of the economy and then colluding to supress any workers who demand anything less than the bare minimum for their talents.

Unfettered free-market competition devolves into totalitarian control of a marketplace segment once enough power is consolidated.

And yet, on a very very very micro scale, it APPEARS to you that in the very short-term, the union is suppressing your individual good. Because you only have the perspective of one person at once point in time.

When actually government regulations and unions and such that SEEM to be suppressing your earning potential in the short terms are the ONLY things protecting you in the long-term, Ennewhy.

They're protecting their members, collectively, from only looking out for their short-term needs in a manner that would actually be of a great detriment to them in the long term.

This is how economics work when you're actually out of the text book and not functioning from the assumptions of the betterment of large corporations that start with all the advantages.

[littlefallsmets]

I'd rather many people earn ten dollars an hour under the protection from a corporation by a union than one guy "opt out" of the union, leading more and more people to opt out of that union and... quickly... no one having protection from that corporation and all quickly being fucked.

That union needs to keep functioning to keep protecting you from the company you work for and, yes, you have a responsibility to contribute to the continuation of that protection through union dues.

To say that you are being "extorted" by the union is as if to say that you walk into a grocery store, walk out with ten dollars worth of food and... when they tell you to pay for that food or they're going to call the cops, you're being "extorted" for ten dollars.

The service of protecting you from the company that you work for and that would exploit you endlessly if it could has already been rendered by the Teamsters, brother.

You are trying to walk out with the fruit of that labour without contributing to it.

I know that you got some kind of Stockholm Syndrome hard-on for big business, believing that if you follow your captor's every word he will protect you and make you like them and shit, that if you play the game by their rules, you'll be allowed to win too...

But it ain't that way.

The business wants as much out of you for as little as humanly possible.

The union protects you from that.

Your dues make that union possible.

Deal with it, delay some gratification, man, this is how it works.

[littlefallsmets]

Epiphany Faint would be, like, the perfect name for a lame goth-rock band ever.

You need to sell this name to Hot Topic, m'man.

Millions shall be made.

[Doc]

Asherdan gets it!

Also, you two are having this exact same make-out session in that 'don't hurt me' thread, please at least keep your political arguments efficient, that guy was just trying to buy himself some comic books, now look what you went and did.

[littlefallsmets]

I imagined Epiphany Faint as... like... just the Vertigo Comics version of Death, y'know, chalkwhite skinned cute lil goth chick swooning onto a fainting couch. Maybe, maybe she'd be a little heavier than Death and have some unfortunate piercings but basically her.

EDIT: Heavier Than Death could be their opening act.

[side_show]

Epiphany Faint would be, like, the perfect name for a lame goth-rock band ever.

You need to sell this name to Hot Topic, m'man.

Millions shall be made.

And their album would be Sex Funeral.

A-CAP, I've avoided joining the actor's union for years.  I can say I've likely lost work due to this, but I have always been upfront about it with my potential employers.  Did you tell the people who hired you that you opposed the union and would be unwilling to pay the dues if they hired you?  The time to oppose unionization is before you start collecting a pay check.

[linnea]

Dude... my grandfather was a teamster. He drove a coal truck in Chicago. My twin sister is a teacher. Do not come crying to me about the union.

Where I worked in Alaska, employees who took Union jobs had to pay their dues before they started work. I assume this is the same everywhere. Are you saying that you took a job as a truck driver in NEW YORK CITY without thinking you'd have to pay the Teamsters? Christ.

You'll have to either pay the dues, or find alternate work. The teamsters will not let you work as a truck driver unless you pay their union membership dues. Management will not give you shifts unless you're union. Seriously, arachnocapitalist, this is one battle that you will not win. I am sorry to tell you this.

[Golfhaus]

My dad has been a union member for damn near 40 years. At times, he was able to put food on our plate because he was in a union.

Of course, now that I've moved in what would be considered more of a management-type job, my feelings have muted a bit. But the fact is that in many/most work environments, unions are necessary to keep abuses from happening. Because if they come to you and say, "You're going to have to work seven days this week, and oh yeah, the days are going to be twelve hours long, and there's a lot to do, so don't bother bringing lunch in because you won't have time to eat it," you either do it or they fire you and find someone else who will. And there's always someone who will. Unions keep them from doing that. They don't make all the rank and file workers millionaires, but they do help determine a realistic set of work rules to keep employees safely and productively employed.

[littlefallsmets]

Well, either way, no matter what kind of job you work... you seem far too sharp a guy than to have taken a job without realizing it was a union shop. That's the point that was being made.

[jaydub]

Good luck with that, Don Quixote.  On the positive side, there are plenty of microbreweries that aren't union shops and would be glad to employ a good brewer.

[littlefallsmets]

You took a job that specifically put you into a position of ideological indignation? On some level, so that you could bitch and moan about it? ...and then when the ramifications of your civil-disobedience against people protecting you from the savagery of a multi-national corporation came down hard on your head, you were surprised?

C'mon, man. That is a total Pat move and you know it.

Pat going into a MacDonalds and acting all indignant when they can't make him a vegan option.

It says "billions of burgers served" on the sign over the door, seriously.

Seems like a real waste of psychic energy, my friend.

If that's what floats your boat, I mean, have fun and all that but... yeah, the Quixote comparison is apt. One must choose their windmills wisely, you know, and somehow making your job one of those windmills doesn't sound like the best of ideas.

You are mad at them for protecting you in a way that you knew they were going to protect you and then asking for your share of the cost of that ongoing protection?

Billions of burgers served, dude. Windmills, dude.