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[CortJstr]

It's depressing that this really is kind of a big deal (or at least it seems to me). He had no need to say it, didn't make it a big enough deal for it to be part of a particular message pushing strategy and it will probably only hurt him with certain groups.
Awww damnit now I'm remember that there are people who will hate him because he thinks it should be acknowledged that people with different beliefs are part of your society. I'm going to go to a barbecue and be godless.

From Penn Jillette's twitter: How pathetic is it that there's mentions of god all over and even a minister and prayers, and we Atheists rolling over for a mention?

[Choop]

+1 Penn Jillette. I, for one, am fine that the prayers etc. happened and that I only got a mention because you know why? Obama's a Christian, and if he wants a prayer when he's being inaugurated to the highest office in the land, it's his right. I'd prefer, of course, that he not inject religion into politics, but so long as he respects my rights NOT to have a prayer when I do anything worthy of public attention, and to do things according to my own belief system and not his own, I'll respect his right to worship in his way. No law respecting the establishment of religion, indeed.

[wombat]

It's depressing that this really is kind of a big deal

It really is a big deal. Atheists are the last group that it's still OK to hate in the US. We could never elect an atheist president. It's not just about different beliefs, it's about this particular belief (or lack thereof).

I thought it was pretty brave of him to have U2 play at the concert on Sunday when it was pretty much inevitable that Bono would do something like drop in that reference to Palestine, but this was even braver.

[iron_felix]

I believe Obama is the first president to actually say that atheists even count as Americans, and there's only two more presidents separating us from George H.W. Bush, who explicitly said otherwise.  It really is depressing that we're still at a point where this is a big deal, but we are, and it certainly is.

[jay-ell]

I had no idea we had so many bona fide atheists on the board.  I mean, I just sort of assume that everyone is non-practicing Whatever, or else agnostic, until that assumption is corrected.  

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here, but it seems like a belief that there is no God is as much a belief as any other religion -- just with fewer commandments to follow.  

There was going to be a lot more here, but my kids interfered.  

[wombat]

You know, I don't really make that big a distinction between atheist and agnostic. Saying you don't believe there is a God, or that you don't believe you can prove whether or not there is a God... that seems to me more like a personality difference than anything else.

Anyway, what Obama said was "non-believers" and that covers both, so we're IN either way. Hooray!

[Ruta Bagas]

Surely you can be an agnostic theist? I'm sure there are piles and piles of people who believe in a deity who also take the position that they can't be sure it really exists. Not least because it's pretty well built in to no small chunk of religion.

Besides which, I'm not atheist because I believe there's no god; I'm atheist because I don't believe there is a god, and because I think and act as though there isn't.

(I'm also theist, because I'm addicted to tea-drinking.)

[wombat]

I'm not atheist because I believe there's no god; I'm atheist because I don't believe there is a god

See, to me - and I recognize that reasonable people can differ on this - life is too short for an argument that compares two sentences like that, or entertains the concept 'agnostic theist'. (Fortunately for me, a person can sleep through semantics classes - or be stunned to the point of idiocy - and still get a degree in linguistics.)

But as for your other point - there is a tea shop in DC called Teaism, and that's an -ism I can get behind, too.

[pmcd9]

I think the difference between atheist and agnostic is huge.  As I understand it an atheist is certain there is no god or afterlife and an agnostic doesn't know.

Anyone that claims to know what's beyond the veil, whether they be Christian or atheist is a fool in my opinion.  Hell, we only know a drop in the ocean about the things we can see and we know even less about the things we can't.

I guess I'd have to add that Christians are bigger fools because much of what they believe is demonstrably false, but that's another subject entirely.

[AugustWest]

I think we spend waaaaay too much time worrying about metaphysics when we should be thinking about ethics.

[pmcd9]

Frank Dempsey for President.

[Ruta Bagas]

I guess the trouble is that different people mean different things by 'atheist'. My beliefs don't make me a fool by your standards, but if I described myself as an atheist without explaining what I meant you might think me one (although I like to think you'd delve a little deeper before making that judgement.)

Why do so many people insist on absolute certainty from those who describe themselves as 'atheist'? Isn't the word far more useful if it encompasses people, like me, who acknowledge that you can't be certain there is no god but don't think that that really matters, practically? I mean, the sense in which you can't prove the non-existence of god is only the same sense you can't prove the non-existence of elves, but you wouldn't call someone a fool if they told you they don't believe in elves. What shorthand should I use to describe myself in a discussion of religious belief? 'Agnostic' won't cut it: I could be uncertain and still be a Christian. Hell, I could be uncertain and still campaign against contraception or abortion or gay marriage based on my Christian beliefs. 'Agnostic' doesn't cover any of the things that are of practical value about my atheism.

None of these words are perfect, just like 'conservative' or 'feminist' aren't, and it seems silly to me that we should discuss belief positions based on how we personally would define a word rather than on how people think and what they believe. As such, I think it's important that people don't go around with the mindset that anyone who calls themself an atheist is a 'fool' or is just as much subscribing to what is essentially just another religion - that seems silly to me in the same way that going around thinking that everyone who calls themselves 'feminist' is a misandrist does.

[wombat]

I think we spend waaay too much time worrying about metaphysics when we should be eating chocolate.

[Ruta Bagas]

The beautiful thing about eating chocolate is that you can combine it with a wealth of other activities!

[jaydub]

Atheists proselytize - otherwise, the difference is semantic.