Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[littlefallsmets]

miles: that's exactly why I hate the name so much. it is SUCH a torturedly self-conscious joke that tries to pretend it is an off-hand joke.

Nabu: Camper Van Beethoven certainly sounds dumb but I ain't gonna say it is "Times New Viking" level stupid.

miles: Anal Cunt is actually a mildly funny name for a band. It cheerfully accepts that it is just being an asshole and goes with it.

[theinevitable]

It never occurred to me that "Times New Viking" was a reference to Times New Roman for a long time. When I did realize, I was like, "oh, huh." I do not really care. It is kind of a silly name.

I just don't see all these levels of caring/not-caring/whatever. I only see a kind of stupid band name from a band who are sometimes pretty damn good, and sometimes really boring.

The Sex Pistols were organized by a fashion shop dude, and the Ramones came first and were a couple of dudes from Queens who decided to start a band even though they were bad at their instruments. The fact of the Sex Pistols is not some kind of weird secret to understanding all bands that have come since them.

[theinevitable]

in re: lo-fi recording.

I have realized that sometimes things are "lo-fi," and sometimes things are actually badly recorded.

This came to me when I started hearing things that are, you know, actually badly recorded. Something like this is actually recorded badly-- sometimes you can't hear things very well. It's really tinny, and mushy, and I wish I could hear the damn guitars and the bass.

But sometimes, people intentionally make things sound a certain way, because they like that sound. Part of this is often an emulation of old-fashioned recordings-- no overdubs, recording things relatively live/in the same room, etc.
There are also things where they purposely make it sound really weird. Times New Viking, for example, makes everything sound pretty mushed together and fuzzy. I didn't realize they had two vocalists until I saw them live, I thought it was just a really fucked up recording of one person with a weird voice. Ditto for Thee Oh Sees, actually.

The band Women have, in interviews, talked about how they kept telling the guy who engineered their record to make it sound shittier. They purposely put it through filters, recorded it onto shitty tapes and then dubbed it a million times, etc, because they wanted it to sound hazy and fuzzy and weird. This is, as far as I care, no different from things like Flanging. Theoretically, fuck*ng with the tapes something is recorded on is "bad." You aren't supposed to do that. But someone (according to wikipedia there are multiple possible origins for this) was trying to figure something out, and fucked up a tape, and realized that it was a cool effect.
Wait, actually, this is also basically what distortion is. It started out as "we are turning up our amps really loud and our tubes are overheating," but then someone realized that this sounded awesome, and now people do it on purpose.

Similarly, if you listen to, say, Guided by Voices, there are a lot of "mistakes" left in the recordings. As far as I can tell, this happened on purpose, but possibly as a result of years of recording on shitty equipment, and realizing "hey, it sounds kind of cool when there are weird fucked-up things in the recording."

I don't know. I like mistakes. It is less of a weird fetish for me than it was a few years ago. But when I first heard "Bee Thousand" it completely blew my mind.

Similarly, I want to get better at guitar, but the people I consider good at the guitar are not necessarily the people you would consider good at guitar. That does not mean I am trying to be bad at guitar.

[Nabubrush]

I think Anal Cunt is sort of a weak name. It does seem, however, that the name thing is becoming more difficult. You can't name your heavy fuck*ng band Black Sabbath anymore. Too late! Can't name your band the Misfits, which is a pretty awesome name, especially given the inspiration. Bad Brains is pretty simple and classic. Stooges. Nine Inch Nails. I sort of ignore the names now, or at least don't put much stock in them.

Smashing Pumpkins is a band name that kind of bugs me, though. That may just be because I think the band is annoying.

[littlefallsmets]

The last good band name left is "Security Device Enclosed".

And for all I know, someone is using it and just isn't famous yet.

[pmcd9]

Similarly, if you listen to, say, Guided by Voices, there are a lot of "mistakes" left in the recordings. As far as I can tell, this happened on purpose, but possibly as a result of years of recording on shitty equipment, and realizing "hey, it sounds kind of cool when there are weird fucked-up things in the recording."

Lots of albums from the 60s have mistakes all over them because in many cases they were recorded on the fly with shoestring budgets under extreme pressure to produce in a limited time frame.  Those records are classics now despite the mistakes and poor recording because they are fresh and immediate and made by brilliant geniuses in some cases. 

But music isn't recorded like that anymore.  Today, even an entry level band can gain access to top flight equipment and basically all the time in the world they need to get things done properly.  I'd hate to think there was a band too apathetic to fix the mistakes in their recordings.  Or even worse, a band that is inserting "mistakes" into their recordings as part of their aesthetic.  I hope that's not going on. 

But I'm not going to judge, if that's your thing, by all means, have at it hoss.

[CortJstr]

But music isn't recorded like that anymore.  Today, even an entry level band can gain access to top flight equipment and basically all the time in the world they need to get things done properly.  I'd hate to think there was a band too apathetic to fix the mistakes in their recordings.  Or even worse, a band that is inserting "mistakes" into their recordings as part of their aesthetic.  I hope that's not going on. 

The closest things I can think of to this that I like are:

On Sleater-Kinney's final album there's a song that they managed to nail on the first take. After the song ends you can hear them laughing at their luck. That's kind of cool.

On the BT song Never Gonna Come Back Down most, if not all, of the lyrics are improvised by Mike Doughty. After the song is over you hear BT laugh and clap and Mike says "this is what I do for a living"

[littlefallsmets]

I think that the rock tradition of leaving the end of a live track in if something interesting happens at the end of the good take is a little different than "sounding bad because it is teh roxxorz to sound bad".

[pmcd9]

I think that the rock tradition of leaving the end of a live track in if something interesting happens at the end of the good take is a little different than "sounding bad because it is teh roxxorz to sound bad".

Yeah, adding in studio dialog between songs was pioneered by The Beatles, one of the most polished bands ever.

[theinevitable]

um, guided by voices recorded their (earlier) albums on shitty home tape machines in the 80s. that is why they had a lot of mistakes, weird sounds, background buzz, etc. But I think it is awesome that they sound that way.

also:

(Her Majesty) was originally placed between "Mean Mr. Mustard" and "Polythene Pam"; McCartney decided that the sequence did not work and the song was edited out of the medley by Abbey Road Studios tape operator John Kurlander. He was instructed by McCartney to destroy the tape, but EMI policy stated that no Beatles recording was ever to be deleted. The fourteen seconds of silence between "The End" and "Her Majesty" are the result of Kurlander’s lead out tape added to separate the song from the rest of the recording.
The loud chord that occurs at the beginning of the song is the ending, as recorded, of "Mean Mr. Mustard".[2] "Her Majesty" ends abruptly because its own final note was left at the beginning of "Polythene Pam". Paul applauded Kurlander's "surprise effect" and the track became the unintended closer to the LP. The crudely-edited beginning and end of "Her Majesty" shows that it was not meant to be included in the final mix of the album; as McCartney says in The Beatles Anthology, "Typical Beatles - an accident." Consequently, both of the original sides of vinyl close with a song that ends abruptly (the other being I Want You (She's So Heavy)).

"sounding bad because it is teh roxxorz to sound bad".

BUT IT IS YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION THAT IT SOUNDS BAD. THEY ARE TRYING TO SOUND THAT WAY ON PURPOSE, BECAUSE THEY THINK IT SOUNDS GOOD.

I think that the guitars in heavy metal sound idiotic, but that doesn't mean they are scooping their mids in order to sound bad. are you retarded? like, seriously, what is wrong with you? Can you seriously not understand how someone can like something that you do not like, and not be making a weird pose, but actually like it?

[pmcd9]

I never realized that Abbey Road was a lo-fi album. 

[theinevitable]

this is also humorously mirrored in LFM and my argument about college radio.

[miles]

Hey Keith I saw Sonic Youth tonight and they kicked fuck*ng ass. Sorry you caught them on an off night.

You have mentioned before this idea that Sonic Youth "aren't trying." How can you possibly think this? They have been a band for something like 30 years, have put out tons of albums, toured every continent except Antactica. They are also, as far as I am concerned, really fuck*ng good at their instruments.

I don't know if LFM really made this claim, but if so I imagine it probably was based on a pretty limited sampling of their material. Kim and Thurston can be pretty irritating and some of their stuff really does sound like they are just fuck*ng around. Thurston, particularly in the early 90s, could be kind of snotty and I can see how that comes off as insincere and effortless or whatever. But yeah, they are definitely sincere and take it all seriously. I think they also really try to push the envelope when it comes what rock musicians typically do, especially on their self-released albums. You may not like it but they aren't hiding from criticism behind a wall of laziness. They may not give a fuck what anyone thinks, but any artist going out on a limb like that probably isn't going to care, at least to a point. And I mean Lee Ranaldo. That guy's fuck*ng awesome, a fantastic guitarist and songwriter.

LFM, have you listened to Murray Street? I mean I don't really care whether you like Sonic Youth, but it seems that most of my friends who like the band but also have pretty different tastes like this album. Thurston's obnoxiousness is pretty much entirely gone and if you just can't stand Kim, skip the final two tracks. I also think that each member's skill is pretty well on display. I'd say it's worth checking out, but I make no promises.

Another band name I like: Slint.

[pmcd9]

I really want to like Sonic Youth, but they just don't do it for me.  Maybe it's as you say Miles, I just haven't heard the right stuff.  They do have a very deep catalog.  What I have heard, to me sounds like artlessly played noise devoid of melody and sense of rhythmic timing.  I don't deny that they are a beloved band with a significant following, but what they do doesn't appeal to me.  I don't think for a minute though that they're not trying.  You don't put together a 30 year career in music by not giving a fuck.

[KeithHernandez]

As a guy who has been recording songs on shitty equipment for like 5 years- sometimes shit happens and it is good and you leave it.  Sometimes shit happens and it is bad but the rest is good and it is too hard to take out, so you leave it.  Sometimes it is bad and you can take it out and you do.

Also, as a guy who just listened to Times New Viking, I don't think they really deserve us arguing about them.