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[Pedro Picasso]

If you read about some of the amazing shit Ricky Jay can do with cards, you'll quickly be singing another tune.

I think my basic problem is that when I see an entertainer do something unbe-motherfuck*ng-lievable, and I ask,"How in the hell did you do that?" I want the answer to be either 'practice' or 'physics'.  I don't like the answers 'magic' and 'I tricked you'.  This is why most pro-wrestling is more fun to me than most stage magic.  I guess like most modern bands, if I see the good stuff I'll probably like it, but until then I'll keep my eyes on the lovely assistant.

Pro-wrestlers generally answer with 'gymnastics', 'steroids', or 'I genuinely don't like my body.'

[Carlos del Vaca]

The best trick I've ever seen is Penn & Teller's bullet catch.  I saw it live a few years ago, and I still have no idea how they do it.  I've read some explanations of that trick in general that say you have duplicate bullets, etc.  But the fact that they have people come up on stage, initial the bullets with a marker, then verify that it's their bullets after they're fired...holy crap.

You don't catch bullets with your teeth.  You just don't.  And yet.

[slink]

I think my basic problem is that when I see an entertainer do something unbe-motherfuck*ng-lievable, and I ask,"How in the hell did you do that?" I want the answer to be either 'practice' or 'physics'.  I don't like the answers 'magic' and 'I tricked you'.  

I guess, I look at good magic stuff (and I mean good, like Penn and Teller's unrevealed ones, or very very slick fast card stuff) and know that is done with either practice of physics, and thus it gives me somethign to think about. Plus, like listening to a fuck*ng fantastic guitar solo, I am in awe of the skill.

And I am with you the bullet trick. I've never worked out quite how they could do it, and they claim they have about 3 methods of doing it that they switch round too.

[CortJstr]

Google says, "let's remember our performance hierarchy: legitimate theater, musical theater, stand-up, ventrillaquism, magic, mime" but I don't really trust the site.

I love Amazing Jonathan and Penn & Teller because they recognize that magic is a fraud and isn't a serious profession. Plus they show you some of the tricks (sometimes "accidentally").

I think the coolest version of the magic bullet is when they do it with the panes of glass. But the introduction with the letter from the magic society makes the whole show.

[V-Adore]

I think sitting in a plastic box for however long with only water to drink is more fraudulent than anything anyone from Houdini to Doug Henning to Copperfield has done. Passing that off as entertainment or some kind of test is just plain stupid to me. (Didn't I read a Kafka book about this same thing??) What's next? will he set himself on fire? Stand on the bottom of the Ocean for a month? A publicity stunt for it's own sake just plain smells. At least stage illusionists create something entertaining on it's own merits.

Once again, a British guy sums up this entire situation far better than I ever could.

[slink]

Once again, a British guy sums up this entire situation far better than I ever could.

I have to agree with him, in what he partially mentioned, which was that the selection process for the Brown one was the best part.
That's what I like him for. He is fantastically good at the psychological trickery, and he admits that hat is nothing but a trick. Just being able to read people fantastically well, or by being so subtley suggestive that they do what he wants.
That's why I wonder whether after going through all that effort to pick someone, he'd then fake it. (And incidentally, having seen it, the guy was asked to count 1-6 then run away. I picked the same chamber as Brown did, and it wasn't in that one. Don't know that that means squat, but it might...)
Anyway, I appreciate it when people admit it's a trick too. It's far less patronising for a start, and if there's one thing the media loves to do now...

[AlohaDawg]

If you read about some of the amazing shit Ricky Jay can do with cards, you'll quickly be singing another tune.

I think my basic problem is that when I see an entertainer do something unbe-motherfuck*ng-lievable, and I ask,"How in the hell did you do that?" I want the answer to be either 'practice' or 'physics'.  I don't like the answers 'magic' and 'I tricked you'.  This is why most pro-wrestling is more fun to me than most stage magic.  I guess like most modern bands, if I see the good stuff I'll probably like it, but until then I'll keep my eyes on the lovely assistant.

Suspension of your disbelief is part of the entertainment process. There are people who are incapable of it and these are the sort of people who can only read Newspapers and Non-fiction. It's sad. What I'm starting to ponder is whether the 'suspension of disbelief' ability is along a continuum. For instance, could you watch Jurassic Park? Or did your knowledge that there are NO DINOSAURS ruin it for you....finding Nemo? CRAP! giraffe don't talk! And they don't love their offspring! etc, etc...Maybe I'm just, in general better at checking my brain at the door than other people.

The only time I can't lose myself in a story or movie or live show is when things don't fit right. Like, for instance, when something is set in Chicago and it's very obvious (to me, who lived there) that it is not Chicago.  It sort of pisses me off and ruins it. (those of you who lived there - did you watch ER? I love when Dr Green was in a huge hurry to get to the Hospital from the airport....next thing you know, he jumps in a cab from O'Hare, heads NORTH on lakeshore drive from the McCormick Center, suddenly is in front of the TRIBUNE building, and jumps out of the cab. Covers the last three miles on foot in about 30 seconds, arriving at the white and red EMERGENCY sign (which, if you've been there, is on a totally different hospital than Cook County).

To paraphrase Family Guy, the chain goes:

Legitimate Theatre
Musical Theatre
Movies
Television
Mime
Stage Magic

The only form of entertainment lower than card tricks is streaking.

Mainstream puppetry would be my choice for last: I submit Wayland Flowers and Madam and Shari Lewis and Lambchop as my evidence. Ditto on the Shields and Yarnell comment although I could be persuaded to see Mummenschanz once just to see if it could be as weird and bad as it looked.

[V-Adore]

Mainstream puppetry would be my choice for last: I submit Wayland Flowers and Madam and Shari Lewis and Lambchop as my evidence. Ditto on the Shields and Yarnell comment although I could be persuaded to see Mummenschanz once just to see if it could be as weird and bad as it looked.

I saw Mummenschanz live as a preteen; I actually more or less enjoyed it, although it was a colossally weird experience.

Incidentally, do Muppets count as "mainstream puppetry?" Because they've got to raise the average there, at least a little, although ventriloquists probably even it back out.

[AlohaDawg]

Incidentally, do Muppets count as "mainstream puppetry?" Because they've got to raise the average there, at least a little, although ventriloquists probably even it back out.

Good Point; I withdraw the term 'puppetry' in favor of the more heinous 'ventriloquism". And I add to the list of Wayland Flowers and Madam and Shari Lewis and Lambchop both Senor Wences and the guy from Soap. Although Soap was an awesome show.

[AugustWest]

Senor Wences was bizarre and awesome, you philistine.

[AlohaDawg]

Senor Wences was bizarre and awesome, you philistine.

I only remember the lipstick fist on the little body and the face in the box (close dee door, eets cold!)...But he *was* on the original Muppet Show, and that has to be worth something.

I'll grant you 'bizarre'. The fact that his lips always moved made him less of a ventriloquist and more of another class of 'entertainment' we could add to that 'bad' list: prop comic.

(Although I like Gallagher, so go figure.)

[pmcd9]

If you read about some of the amazing shit Ricky Jay can do with cards, you'll quickly be singing another tune.

I think my basic problem is that when I see an entertainer do something unbe-motherfuck*ng-lievable, and I ask,"How in the hell did you do that?" I want the answer to be either 'practice' or 'physics'. I don't like the answers 'magic' and 'I tricked you'. This is why most pro-wrestling is more fun to me than most stage magic. I guess like most modern bands, if I see the good stuff I'll probably like it, but until then I'll keep my eyes on the lovely assistant.

Calling sleight of hand "magic" is just a name.  It's like calling todays mainstream music "alternative".

To paraphrase Family Guy, the chain goes:

Legitimate Theatre
Musical Theatre
Movies
Television
Mime
Stage Magic

The only form of entertainment lower than card tricks is streaking.

Unfortunately the few really talented ones get tarred with the same brush used on the frauds.  Ricky Jay for one is flat out awesome.

~Paul

[AlohaDawg]

To paraphrase Family Guy, the chain goes:

Legitimate Theatre
Musical Theatre
Movies
Television
Mime
Stage Magic

The only form of entertainment lower than card tricks is streaking.

Unfortunately the few really talented ones get tarred with the same brush used on the frauds.  Ricky Jay for one is flat out awesome.

~Paul

I'm still waiting for a mime to come along and change the world.

[CortJstr]

Suspension of your disbelief is part of the entertainment process. There are people who are incapable of it and these are the sort of people who can only read Newspapers and Non-fiction. It's sad. What I'm starting to ponder is whether the 'suspension of disbelief' ability is along a continuum. For instance, could you watch Jurassic Park? Or did your knowledge that there are NO DINOSAURS ruin it for you....finding Nemo? CRAP! giraffe don't talk! And they don't love their offspring! etc, etc...Maybe I'm just, in general better at checking my brain at the door than other people.

I remember having this conversation a while back: So you have no problem with the Bat-cave being dug, the computers being purchased and properly grounded, and construction/maintanence of the Batmobile all done in total secrecy to be totally believable, but having ice-skates in his boots is inconceivably preposterous?

The only time I can't lose myself in a story or movie or live show is when things don't fit right. Like, for instance, when something is set in Chicago and it's very obvious (to me, who lived there) that it is not Chicago.  It sort of pisses me off and ruins it. (those of you who lived there - did you watch ER? I love when Dr Green was in a huge hurry to get to the Hospital from the airport....next thing you know, he jumps in a cab from O'Hare, heads NORTH on lakeshore drive from the McCormick Center, suddenly is in front of the TRIBUNE building, and jumps out of the cab. Covers the last three miles on foot in about 30 seconds, arriving at the white and red EMERGENCY sign (which, if you've been there, is on a totally different hospital than Cook County).

I have this problem too. Whever somebody takes the metro in a movie the actual sets are always the NY subway instead. That and when characters say "the 95" when they just mean "95" or "the 495" when they mean "the beltway" or "the inner-loop"

[AugustWest]

To paraphrase Family Guy, the chain goes:

Legitimate Theatre
Musical Theatre
Movies
Television
Mime
Stage Magic

The only form of entertainment lower than card tricks is streaking.

Unfortunately the few really talented ones get tarred with the same brush used on the frauds.  Ricky Jay for one is flat out awesome.

~Paul

I'm still waiting for a mime to come along and change the world.

How about Silent Bob?  He rocks.