Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[miles]

Oh yeah, they put a few disclaimers in there, but they went to great pains to paint a sympathetic view of the Mormons as being a persecuted people chased across the country by fearful Mormon haters.  and ol' Joe Smith was falsely accused and imprisoned.  They even "tarred and weathered" him then killed him along with his brother.

So of course they had to massacre them as they were trying to leave the area.

What they are doing is providing historical context. The quote I provided above, lifted verbatim from the site, directly refutes your last sentence:

While the Mormons were heavily persecuted, driven from their homes, and killed en masse several times, their persecution did not justify the killings at Mountain Meadows.

The real problem is that it's shifting blame directly on the militia even though at the very least church rhetoric was partly responsible for the hysteria that led to the massacre.

Christ, sorry. I know there is probably no one else on the board with interest in this little piece of American history, but it's endlessly fascinating to me. Anyway, I provided the link because the first paragraph provides a brief overview and includes the date of the event.

My take on this issue: of course it's disrespectful, though sometimes hilarious, to burn a sacred book, but I get nervous when I hear forceful condemnations of such an act from political leaders. Freedom of expression is much more important than protecting the delicate sensibilities of people, and while I don't think anyone is yet proposing to ban such an act, it's not unimaginable. I wouldn't be surprised if some legislator somewhere proposes some law to ban something like this under the guise of hate crime legislation.

If we can't burn holy books then the terrists have truly won.

[KeithHernandez]

I have not burned a bible, but Mormons are the only group in this country I am scared of.  What is up with the underwear Miles?

Also, I have been to Devil's Gate/ Martin's Cove.  My ##### got stuck a few feet in the mud when I jumped off a cliff so I got to walk past all of the mormons pushing hand carts in my underwear.  Thank jon smith for the aclu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin%27s_Cove - go to ownership.  I will say I went to Independence Rock, Chimney Rock and Devil's Gate/Martin's Cove.  Devil's Gate was by far the coolest of the 3/4 (Martin's Cove is right next to Devil's Gate.)

Oh, and actually I used bible papers to roll joints when I was 15 or 16, does that count?

[wombat]

How come we burn books to show we disrespect them, but we're supposed to burn a flag when we throw it away to show we respect it? And yet some people burn flags as a protest? I think we need to get our symbolism straightened out a little better here.

[miles]

Calvin Johnson wonders the same thing.

[JorgeFabregas]

How come we burn books to show we disrespect them, but we're supposed to burn a flag when we throw it away to show we respect it? And yet some people burn flags as a protest? I think we need to get our symbolism straightened out a little better here.

Korans are also supposed to be burned when they are disposed of.

A very good album ostensibly about the Mountain Meadows massacre was released last year. I have not read up on the lyrics or explored the history enough to confirm the connection.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/elliott-brood-mountain-meadows,34250/


Edit: My wife and her friend were obsessed with Mormon origins and Mormon fundamentalists. Under the Banner of Heaven and all that stuff. Then her friend converted to Mormonism. Woah!

[jay-ell]

Oh, and actually I used bible papers to roll joints when I was 15 or 16, does that count?

Only to God.

[wombat]

Korans are also supposed to be burned when they are disposed of.

WHAT. 

Seriously, can't we just not be a dick to a stranger's holy book.

[Doc]

With flag burning I feel like there's always some level of self criticism there, it's say 'I'm so disgusted with my country that this is what I'm doing' but at least you're owning the thing you're being angry at and want to change.
Burning someone else's holy book feels more like an attack on another culture, blaming something external for all your problems, I think that for some people there wouldn't be a big leap between burning the book and burning the people who wrote it.

As has been said, most defenses of flag burners are about whether or not it should be illegal, which is only even an issue because the fringe people on the other side of politics like to bang on about how it should be illegal. It would be interesting to know where this group stand on it.

I don't see a contradiction between thinking flag burning should be legal and Quran burning is offensive. Hell, they can both be legal AND offensive. Though the words I'd prefer to use are hateful, petulant and downright childish. Seriously, 3000 people die, a nation comes together and less than 10 years later the best publicised memorial is a group of small town bigots using it as an excuse to hate on brown people, poor show.

[Choop]

well, a couple months after 3000 people died a group of big-city bigots turned that into an excuse to hate on brown people, so that particular poor show started long ago.

[pmcd9]

This Saturday

[Choop]

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Thu, September 09, 2010 -- 5:13 PM ET
-----

Florida Minister Cancels Burning of Korans on 9/11

The pastor planning a burning of the Koran on Saturday said
he will cancel the event, adding he plans to meet with the
imam planning to build an Islamic center near ground zero.

ain't no law needed

[littlefallsmets]

If the pastor and the imam have a press conference and just start making out, that'd be wonderful.

[Choop]

beer summit mk 2

[littlefallsmets]

More seriously, could this pastor just be calling the meeting so that he can kill the other people while there?

I hate that this is a real possibility but I've learned to never overestimate religious extremists.

[jaydub]

ain't no law needed

Not to fear, there's no shortage of kooks willing to steal the torchlight.  No points for guessing who - its obvious, I think.
LFM's faith in fundie tendencies is no doubt secure.