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Author Topic: Prescriptive grammar  (Read 38938 times)

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AugustWest

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2013, 05:16:57 pm »

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand what Choop is saying. For your well being would you please try to explain it to me and I'll try to use it properly.

Not sure if serious or meta-joke.

Can.
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jaydub

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2013, 05:25:09 pm »

For your well being would you please try to explain it to I...
Would clearly have been the meta-joke. :)
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pmcd9

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2013, 09:39:51 pm »

No, I'm being serious. What I know about writing I know mostly from what I've read. Most of what I learned in English class has blown away. I know what nouns and verbs are, but I think most of that I learned from Schoolhouse Rock. The rest gets a little jumbled in my head.

So I'll study those examples some more and hopefully I'll be able to use them correctly in a sentence.
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Choop

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2013, 10:21:30 pm »

sometimes i feel like i'm the only person in the world who remembers sentence diagrams, where you draw out the structure of the sentence according to only the specific words therein, placing the words in the diagram to find the correct ones and flaws in the structure. are they still taught? were they taught anywhere to anybody but the thirty kids in my class that year? did i have some kind of miracle teacher that invented a crazy great tool that got lost in some black hole of innovation? nope. looks like they were invented 99 years before i was born. -- ah, it "has not been much in vogue as a pedagogical device for the past thirty years or so." well goddamnit, WHY NOT
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Arachno-capitalist

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2013, 12:05:35 am »

In 7th grade the non-remedial but not advanced placement english class did sentence diagrams for a whole semester. For whatever they didn't think the ap kids needed to know how grammar worked so I didn't learn anything about grammar until 10th grade german.
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pmcd9

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2013, 12:21:32 am »

it "has not been much in vogue as a pedagogical device for the past thirty years or so." well goddamnit, WHY NOT

You seem to forget that I am waaay older than you are. Yes they taught us sentence structure, I just didn't learn sentence structure. At any rate, I think I've learned to write fairly proficiently anyway even without knowing all the rules.
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Choop

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2013, 12:51:28 am »

you write absolutely well, paul. i'm dismayed at how awful grammar is everywhere on the internet other than touamb. i must have had a holdout from when those pedagogical devices were in vogue, because i wasn't diagramming sentences thirty years ago - probably more like twenty-five. and yes, i know my grammar automatically has strikes against it due to my stylistic decision rarely to capitalize proper nouns or sentences; instead, i use capitalization like bold and italics, to indicate emphasis, timing, stress of voice, or humorous intent. that said, it's a rule i'm breaking on purpose, as a decision. i know when not to use this rule, for example, when i wrote a letter of complaint to the new york times today about their terrible new daily headlines email formatting. (wtf is wrong with plaintext? it formats itself perfectly on my phone and desktop.) but i digress.

i break this rule, and others when applicable, with a complete understanding of what the rule is, what it's meant to enforce, and what i'm losing by breaking it. my word choice and sentence structure, and therefor the communicability of what i write, tend not to suffer for it. people making the wrong call on pronouns or homophones or what have you don't appear to understand how their intent gets lost in the levels of "oh you're a dummy" that occur in the brains of people that know the rules and can tell that they're breaking the rules unintentionally.

i am the product of a public school system. my college experience had very little bearing on how i communicate, other than vocabulary. the tax-funded, free-to-participate education available to all and mandated to most might not be the best in the world, but goddamn it, it HAS to be better than what i'm seeing all over the web.
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nephilim8

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2013, 01:43:38 am »

sometimes i feel like i'm the only person in the world who remembers sentence diagrams, where you draw out the structure of the sentence according to only the specific words therein, placing the words in the diagram to find the correct ones and flaws in the structure. are they still taught? were they taught anywhere to anybody but the thirty kids in my class that year? did i have some kind of miracle teacher that invented a crazy great tool that got lost in some black hole of innovation? nope. looks like they were invented 99 years before i was born. -- ah, it "has not been much in vogue as a pedagogical device for the past thirty years or so." well goddamnit, WHY NOT

They taught us diagramming when I was in elementary school...12 years ago? criminy. It didn't last long past that though.
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AugustWest

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2013, 02:15:56 am »

Probably my very favorite class as an undergraduate was essentially on diagramming sentences.  Not sure why, but it struck a chord with me and the fellow teaching it did a great job.

Paul, the easy way to check whether to use "I" or "me" in a phrase like "Fred and I/me" is to just drop Fred.  If you'd use "me" if the "Fred and" wasn't there, you still use "me".  So:

(Fred and) I will be going to the grocery to purchase a rabbit.  Agnes is making hasenpfeffer for (Fred and) me.
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pmcd9

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2013, 04:13:52 am »

(Fred and) I will be going to the grocery to purchase a rabbit.  Agnes is making hasenpfeffer for (Fred and) me.

Fred and I think we can do that. Thank you for helping Fred and me.
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AugustWest

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2013, 04:30:33 am »

Fred and I think we can do that. Thank you for helping Fred and me.

Your welcome.
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Carlos del Vaca

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2013, 02:06:01 pm »

sometimes i feel like i'm the only person in the world who remembers sentence diagrams, where you draw out the structure of the sentence according to only the specific words therein, placing the words in the diagram to find the correct ones and flaws in the structure. are they still taught? were they taught anywhere to anybody but the thirty kids in my class that year?

We diagrammed sentences back in my day. One of those things that a lot of people whined "When will this ever apply in the real world?" but I actually sort of enjoyed it.

Your welcome.

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Choop

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2013, 04:10:20 pm »

hey wombat did you hear about this one yet
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wombat

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2013, 05:34:56 pm »

You know what else is interesting about that? Old people are always saying that the younguns are illiterate, they don't read, they can't write... but in fact they're so steeped in written language that they've turned a punctuation mark into speech. Beat that, previous generations.
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jaydub

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2013, 06:39:19 pm »

Curious.  I guess I have heard it used that way, but the two novel uses I have seen for the term are "slashfic", indicating a subgenre of fan fiction, and as a markup for a pseudo-html phrasing of online commenting

/pedant off
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