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[AugustWest]

Seriously, it's probably the most intuitive interface I've ever seen in a game -- with the possible exception of "Black & White."

You're kidding, right?  RIGHT?

[jay-ell]

Seriously, it's probably the most intuitive interface I've ever seen in a game -- with the possible exception of "Black & White."

You're kidding, right?  RIGHT?

Did you not find B&W to be intuitive?  I thought it was brilliant.  Steep learning curve, but really excellently done.  

Or are you saying that WCIII isn't intuitive?  

Sorry, I'm a bit foggy today.

[AugustWest]

I found B&W highly disappointing.  The controls were unwieldy and counter-intuitive and much of the game plot just did not work.  I was VERY disappointed in that game, as I bought it soon after it came out and thereby spent more than I usually do on a game.  I tried and tried to like it, but finally was forced to admit that it sucked.

Also, when I looked back I realized it was just Populace with a little better graphics and a wonky interface.

[AlohaDawg]

Did you not find B&W to be intuitive?  I thought it was brilliant.  Steep learning curve, but really excellently done.  

Can something be intuitive and have a steep learning curve at the same time? Sounds suspicious to me.

[jay-ell]

I agree about the plot, and I felt the first level (which was essentially a tutorial) was overwrought.  But on the whole, I thought the AI was amazing, and while it's not the best game in the genre, it was certainly groundbreaking in its time.  The controls, I guess it's a matter of taste, but I found them quite easy to use.  The only problem was, on the machine I was using at the time, the graphics lagged more often than not.  Also, those boat guys deserved to be shot.  Every last bleedin' one of 'em.  

There are rumblings of a B&W II on the horizon.  Not sure when it comes out, tho.  Do I smell a split in the not-to-distant future?

[jay-ell]

Did you not find B&W to be intuitive?  I thought it was brilliant.  Steep learning curve, but really excellently done.  

Can something be intuitive and have a steep learning curve at the same time? Sounds suspicious to me.

Well, what I meant by that is that the controls worked in a way that made sense to me, but there were so many functions that it necessarily took some time to master them.  The curve is steep in that one learns a large number of things in a relatively short period of time, is all.  

An example: to throw a rock, you put the hand-shaped cursor over a rock, click the "action" button (left-click) to pick it up, and then move the penis in the direction of your throw, left-clicking again at the appropriate moment to release the rock.  The speed at which the penis is moving when you release the rock, and the direction of its movement, determines the velocity of the projectile.  To me, this feels very natural, and it's really an amazing little bit of programming, IMHO.  To others, this may feel awkward -- particularly those who have gotten accustomed to reticules and force-meters in gaming.  

Another example: in the game, there are creatures, which you control to some extent.  These creatures, however, are semi-autonomous, so the occasionally do things on their own.  If they, for instance, poop on your villagers, you can punish them to prevent them from repeating the behaviour.  To punish the creature, you simply move the penis quickly from side to side, essentially slapping your creature across the face, nutsack, etc.  However, if you want to reinforce a positive behaviour, you can "pet" your creature by slowly moving the cursor over the creature's body.  

I think this kind of control is super-neat.  Others may disagree.  All I know is, B&W is in the bargain bin now, so if you're interested in AI and that sort of thing, pick it up.  That way, if you hate it, you're not out much money.  Or, I bet August would loan you his copy.   :wink:

EDIT: And there's the split.

[CortJstr]

Ask an ye shall receive.

I too got B&W when it first came out after reading several reviews and a Feature over at the Bruching Shuttlecocks.

After about 2 months I sold it and the guide to a friend. I don't have a steady enough hand to draw the symbols straight enough (which is also why I don't have gestures installed on my browser) and moving about the world with that draggings system was just cruddy.

It also bugged me that the key was supposedly not micromanaging lest the people become dependent on you but micromanaging was unavoidable. Especially when trying to train your creature to water/poop in the grain or feed people.

But the evil solution to the 3rd stone head quest was entertaining.

[jay-ell]

Ooooh, it's been a while.  I'd almost forgotten about the symbols.  

OK, so maybe that part was a little clunky.  But it was still neat.  Definitely 25 bonus points for originality.

[CortJstr]

And I'd forgotten about object manipulation. But miracle symbols and creature-fights were too awkward for me.

[jay-ell]

Oh, the creature-fights were great.  I liked those.  

I think the reason I'd forgotten about miracle symbols is that I rarely used them.  I went the old-fashioned route for all but the most common ones.  Weren't there keyboard shortcuts for all of them, too?  

Damn, I might need to install B&W on my new machine and give it another playthrough.

[AugustWest]

JL, I can't really disagree with anything you said.  When I played B&W, I was impressed with the intuitive nature of the controls -- it was just, well, neat the way they had set everything up.  Naturalistic you might say.

That's why I was so disappointed when the damn game just wasn't any fun.

Also, I learned how to use the controls, but despite much practice never gained any facility with them.  Usually I can pick these things up such that I am tolerably competent.  Not w/ B&W.  Some things were also just too cumbersome to deal with.

I dunno, it was probably worth the money just to fool around with.  It was kind of interesting just exploring the island, throwing trees around and shit like that.  But on the whole I give it a B- at best.  Which is a shame because it's an A+ concept, weakly executed.

[jay-ell]

Agreed, wholeheartedly.  Maybe they'll fix the "Lack of fun" problem in B&W II.  

I admit, I didn't finish the game.  But only because my boyfriend wanted his CD back.

[CortJstr]

Watching creature fights was fun but I found the controls to be too wishy-washy. I should either be controlling the ape Street Fighter style or he should just fight. But maybe this is just another example of my own problems with the fine line between teaching and creating dependece.

I also felt the designers could decide if they wanted to make a solo game with token multi-support (Civ3) or a multi game with token solo quests (Worms series, Neverwinter) and wasn't quite all there for either.

But this is exacly the kind of game I know I shouldn't play because I just don't like sims. But I bought it anyway.

[slink]

I have to say, I looked forward greatly to B&W. It had all the hype that I pay attention to, since I am an avid gaming fan, as well as someone who's been partially involved with the... anyway...

I was disappointed. It got Slink(TM) awards for innovation of controls and shit, but in the end, gameplay wise it didn't cut it. Which is a pity.
It just became stupefyingly boring after the first two islands. You just ended up doing the same old thing. Also, the whole good/evil split - did anyone end up being good? I knew people who are like, so good that we used to swear at them for not shouting at each other when they were having an argument, and  their temple was going all red and pointy.
I just found the only way to get anywhere in it was to persuade people to screw, and then put a shortcut to the altar and the creche, and sacrifice kids for loads of mana.
But anyway, B&W2 does looks a lot nicer, and looks to have some lovely features, like humans who get the fuck on with it for one!!!!!!!!
But, we'll see. I am trying to avoid getting too caught up in the hype, since in the end a lot of these incredible features designers talk about turn out to be either useless or barely noticable.

[Carlos del Vaca]

I'm with August and Slink.  I really looked forward to B&W; it sounded like a game I would really enjoy.  But it just wasn't fun; it was more like work than play.  Those ungrateful fuckers in the boat demanding food, and that idiot who lost his sheep; fuck them!