The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Wild Card => Topic started by: jay-ell on November 03, 2009, 03:42:03 pm
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So, today I realized that I am so dependent on my to-do list that I find it impossible to organize my thoughts enough to get things done without one.
I realized this when I added "dress self" and "brush teeth" to my list, and then suddenly felt capable of doing these things.
Prior to writing them down and seeing that they needed to be done, I felt like I was at loose ends and couldn't wrap my brain around the things that needed to be accomplished before I can take my son to school. Things like, putting on a bra. I'm not sure whether to be afraid, or relieved that I've found something that works.
So, what are your life-coping strategies? How do you manage to move forward on this insane macabre carousel we call life? On a more practical level, are you a "do it when the mood strikes" kind of person, or a "list and conquer" type? Do you have a "system," and is it high- or low-tech? Do you manage your home life differently from your work life? Are there areas of your life you just can't seem to get under control? (I am, for example, constantly overwhelmed by my clothing. There does not seem to be a closet system in existence that can help me figure out what I should be wearing on a day-to-day basis.)
Organization support group starts here.
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I have no advice on system, just on psychology, which is to make sure you put every little thing on the to-do list, especially the things that you are sure will get done, so that you can have something to cross out and feel good about. In dire situations I have been known to write something down that's already done and cross it out immediately, if I forgot.
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See, I think my main problem is that I do not have a Cooperative Spouse in this regard. (Sorry, Pedro, but you know it's true). It's like pulling teeth to get him to sit down and even look at a list I've made, let alone collaborate with me on it. His work life is incredibly organized, but he won't bring it home, for some reason.
We do use Google Calendar for collaborative calendaring, and it's synched to my netbook and Pedro's iTouch so that we have access to it even in offline mode. And we keep a running grocery list on the fridge. But that's it in terms of collaborative family systems. We don't even really have a set chore schedule - so things like doing the dishes and laundry are catch-as-catch can, and usually fall to me because I'm the one that's home more often. Problem is, with the kiddies being so young, one upturned bowl of applesauce at the wrong moment can throw off my plans for the whole day.
Still, lists are my saving grace. When I do have a few minutes during which the kids are not demanding my undivided attention, I can check my list instead of spending ten minutes trying to figure out what to do with the time.
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me = pedro
the missus = jay-ell
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Jesus, as if I needed more reasons not to have kids. My list consists of "Go to work, or dont, you live in the internet age. Pay Bills. Have food? (once a week event where I buy the week's menu). Ok, now do whatever you want until list repeats."
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jay-ell,
Have you and/or your spouse been evaluated by a shrink for anxiety, ADHD, AS or the like? What your above two posts describe seems like it could be either anxiety and/or a failure to see the forest for the trees phenomenon. But maybe I just recognize that because it's what I'm personally familiar with from my own experience. Myself, I am extremely capable of structured thought, but not of strategic thought. I do better in a structured environment, such as the workplace, where the overall strategy of what we are doing has been determined by someone else. I can solve the puzzles of how to get a particular task done with given resources. Where I suck is being able to integrate disparate concepts together into a coherent strategy... I can work with apples, and I can work with oranges, but I can't work with both at the same time. The job I failed the hardest at was delivery driver for a busy mom 'n pop operation. Nothing was computerized, but it didn't have to be. It was in a small town that was easy to navigate... But it required balancing numerous disparate and conflicting objectives... keeping delivery times short, but accepting as many deliveries as possible. No fixed set of rules, no decision making flow chart, could respond to every possible combination of demands and objectives that would arise every day. I could be successful on a given day, but I could never tell you why. I don't learn strategy, I learn detail. I wake up each morning with amnesia, having forgotten any sort of strategic ideas I may have formulated the night before. Every day is a totally new day of reinventing the 'organizational' wheel all over again.
Making lists of items to do, and organizing these lists into categories, it tends to work for me only for a short short period of time, until such time as the number of items on the lists grows, and I become overwhelmed with it all. A list of things to do or even a list of categories of things to do is not the same thing as a strategy. Making lists works for me initially when only a few things are on the list because it forces me into a defacto strategy of focusing on only those things which I happen to remember initially and put on the list. But it fails in the end because over time I tend to remember more and more things that I want to do or that need to be done, so it all melts down, I set the list aside and loose it in all the clutter, and eventually the cycle repeats it's self where I will start a new list after a few weeks or months of dysfunction and depression.
I have recently found a mechanism that seems to work better for me - I consciously force myself to not think on a low level... low level thought being thought about individual specific items. my mind loves to go for low-level items. It's very good at exhaustive low-level thought... I'm almost like some sort of rain-man in how I can deconstruct things on a low level.. I can take apart anything mechanical and figure it out better than most people can... I can fix just about anything... instead, I force myself to think about things that are higher-level... that are strategic in nature... with the idea being that the low level tasks of the day, what to do next and in what order, this low-level arrangement of tasks can spontaneously arise from the direction provided by having a high-level strategy, a higher-level purpose in life.
Of course, we all have higher-level purpose in our lives... we have hopes and dreams, we have goals... but how much time do we actually spend thinking about things from a higher-level perspective, and how much time do we spend worrying about things that are lower-level... anxieties such as changing the oil in the car before the engine blows up, getting bills paid on time, and so on... The more time you spend thinking about something, the more your brain develops capability for thinking about it, and the better your brain gets at it... if overall you neglect to spend time visualizing the higher-level perspective, the bigger picture, then your capability to do so will become weaker over time, and pretty soon the big picture of your life, your higher-level hopes and dreams, become abstract notions wholly disconnected from your daily life.
So that's what I've been finding recently seems to be working for me, is to force my activities to flow from the higher level concepts, from the bigger picture of my life, to force myself to develop that bigger picture, and to hopefully over time gain a more functional understanding of how to make that happen as I gain more experience doing that... to force myself to stop doing things because they are causing me anxiety, and instead to do things because they stem from some positive purpose in my life. I've spent most of my life doing things in response to some anxiety, either immediate or projected, and I've found that there's no end to the amount of anxiety I can generate for myself. I've found that after years and years of trying, a coherent high-level strategy has yet to emerge from my low-level focus on lists of items, and so my life hasn't really gone anywhere I've intended or wanted it to. I've had fun along the way, I've had lots of crazy and wacky adventures, but I want to shape my life into something different, and I want to do so more deliberately.
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me = jay-ell
the mister = A-Cap
Which does not work. Which I am working on. I have never, never, never, never complained about my husband to anyone, in the eleven years we've been together, until recently. I am an extremely empathetic and accomodating person, and wife. Now, however, I can't stop complaining. The dam has broken.
This is an interesting topic, because I have ADHD (inattentive subtype) and my sister is hyper-organized and very anal about it, and she's constantly harping on me about ways I could and should be more organized and all that stuff. It's caused some friction between us and I've finally convinced her that where she feels she is caring about me and helping me, to me it's her telling me I suck and need to be fixed to be more like her.
However, I do need fixing to the degree that I could use a better system to make sure I do the things that need to be done. I haven't had my oil changed in months; I'm 8,000 miles over. Yikes. I think I'll make an appointment right now.
I also need to get the bathroom tub fixed, because water is leaking between the wall surround and the tub, through some degraded caulking, and the wall is getting damaged.
I'm sick of having to take care of every household thing myself. (aargh, there's that complaining again.)
**Edited to add the mister = A-Cap minus the "do we have food? if not buy some" and "Pay bills" operatives. Those are mine to do too. FUCKFUCKFUCK
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me = pedro
the missus = jay-ell
literally, or figuratively?
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literally, or figuratively?
Oooh, I'm wondering too...is Choopernickel the actual Pedro?
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I've been working on this guy's system (http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0142000280) recently - mostly for work. My wife has her own system, which I'm happy to adopt at home. I used to use the 7 Habits system, but I found it broke down somewhat due to the type of work I do (tecnical, rather than managerial).
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What your above two posts describe seems like it could be either anxiety and/or a failure to see the forest for the trees phenomenon. But maybe I just recognize that because it's what I'm personally familiar with from my own experience. Myself, I am extremely capable of structured thought, but not of strategic thought....etc etc
Just want to point out that this is Mr. Wonderful at his finest, and why I like the guy. (I also like his off-the-wallity, most times.) More thoughtful, reasoned posts such as this, and less crazy, will make friends and influence people. :)
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Oooh, I'm wondering too...is Choopernickel the actual Pedro?
Nope, this (http://touamb.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) is the actual Pedro. He drops in from time to time.
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Oooh, I'm wondering too...is Choopernickel the actual Pedro?
No. Pedro is Pedro Picasso
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Just want to point out that this is Shithead at his finest, and why I like the guy. (I also like his off-the-wallity, most times.) More thoughtful, reasoned posts such as this, and less crazy, will make friends and influence people. :)
Ahem...just wanted to point out for posterity that I did not actually post "Shithead", but A-I-U. However, that particular censor function did make me laugh out loud, which I desperately needed. So thanks!
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yeah no way would jay-ell be into such as a fat nerd with a laziness issue, pedro's a cool mofo and a master of the elementals
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Yeah, Pedro made an appointment to be evaluated for ADD when we were in college, but he missed his appointment and never rescheduled. Significant? Probably.
My main problem is that I can't see the trees for the forest, actually. I can look around the house and go, "OK, these are the things that need to be done." And before I had kids, this worked well - I'd see a project (e.g. painting the living room) and I'd set aside time to do it.
But now, well, I'm lucky to have fifteen minute blocks of time in which to accomplish things. I can't take half a day and just plow through things. And I can't do projects (like painting the living room) with toddlers running around getting into shit. (Sometimes literally.) So I'm having trouble getting anything done at all, because I can *only* see the big-picture stuff. I can see that I need to "clean the kitchen," but breaking that down into its component pieces (unload dishwasher, load dishwasher, wash pots and pans, wipe down countertops) is more difficult. In other words, it's a lot easier for me to say, "I'm going to remodel the living room today" than "I have maybe ten uninterrupted minutes while the kids are coloring quietly, what small task can I accomplished right now that will get me closer to my long-term goals?"
Obviously, I should be able to focus long enough to unload the dishwasher. But the problem really isn't my attention span, I don't think, it's the fact that I have two little children who are constantly interrupting my workflow.
I need to find a way to allow me to make the most of the opportunities I have that is not dependent on being able to schedule things in advance or not be interrupted in the middle. Is there a way to do that? Or is it just a matter of waiting for my kids to get older and go to school or learn to not play with knives? Experienced parents, help me out here.
Oh, and for the record, my mom just tells me I need to "work harder." Whatever that means.
Tried to post this earlier, but my WiFi went down and I was posting from the bathtub so I couldn't reboot the router. In the meantime, this:
yeah no way would jay-ell be into such as a fat nerd with a laziness issue, pedro's a cool mofo and a master of the elementals
Pedro is a wonderful guy, but we got married young and he never had his own place. He went from having his mom pick up after him to having me to do it, so he never quite got the hang of how to do laundry and such. He knows this. He works hard, and he has learned to follow recipes and do dishes properly, but it has taken 8 years for him to reach the point where he's comfortable doing housework and not worry about being yelled at for doing it wrong. Also, he works outside the home, and I don't, so I just naturally end up doing more of it than he does. We're all equal-opportunity in theory, but in practice, I feel bad making him clean when he gets home at night because he just spent all day in the office. It's all very "Father Knows Best," in spite of ourselves.
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Yeah, Pedro made an appointment to be evaluated for ADD when we were in college, but he missed his appointment and never rescheduled. .
LOL. Efficient way to get a diagnosis, really.
He works hard, and he has learned to follow recipes and do dishes properly, but it has taken 8 years for him to reach the point where he's comfortable doing housework and not worry about being yelled at for doing it wrong.
Are the one yelling at him? Because the most important rule is what we think of in the Wombat household as the "Shut up and eat it" rule, because it's mostly applied to cooking dinner, but it applies to all other chores. The rule is that if the other person actually does the job, you have to just shut up about it and be glad he did it. If you don't like the way he does it you can do it yourself. But then you can't complain about him not doing it, either. It is one thing to expect the other person to carry his load, and entirely another to expect him to perform according to some detailed standard of your own. Maybe you have learned to apply this to chores but need to also apply it to organizing/scheduling/making the household to-do lists.
Also, although I am not a parent, my observation is that yes, until your kids get a little older you just need to cut yourself some slack.
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Are the one yelling at him? Because the most important rule is what we think of in the Wombat household as the "Shut up and eat it" rule, because it's mostly applied to cooking dinner, but it applies to all other chores. The rule is that if the other person actually does the job, you have to just shut up about it and be glad he did it. If you don't like the way he does it you can do it yourself. But then you can't complain about him not doing it, either. It is one thing to expect the other person to carry his load, and entirely another to expect him to perform according to some detailed standard of your own. Maybe you have learned to apply this to chores but need to also apply it to organizing/scheduling/making the household to-do lists.
Also, although I am not a parent, my observation is that yes, until your kids get a little older you just need to cut yourself some slack.
I used to yell at him for not doing things the same way as me. (Not actually yell, mind you, but he felt scolded.) I am admittedly a bit of a control freak in that regard. However, we hashed this out very early in our marriage, and now I respectfully request that he change his methods only when he's doing something that is actually a Problem. Like when he washed all our clothes in fabric softener instead of laundry soap.
How do you apply the same tactics to organizing/accomplishing tasks, though? It seems like if he won't even look at the list I made and choose a task to do on Saturday afternoon, there's not much room for any kind of collaboration. The only other option is for me to just do it all myself (since he generally doesn't do things around the house unless he's instructed to).
This refers mainly to things that fall outside the day-to-day activities. He'll clean the kitchen nightly, but it doesn't occur to him that the furnace filters need changing, or what have you. So how do you divide up those tasks so that they all get done while maintaining the "live and let live" approach?
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You want help making the list, or just getting the stuff done? It seems like you are the person with the listmaking skill and perhaps his role in this should be, you hand him a list that says "change the furnace filters" and he does it by the end of weekend. I suspect he would rather change the furnace filters than deal with making the list, yes?
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He does not like making lists, nor does he like being told what to do.
STALEMATE.
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He does not like making lists, nor does he like being told what to do.
STALEMATE.
If you can get this figured out, clue me in, 'cause I'm in that exact same situation. My solution seems to be leading to divorce, quite honestly.
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I've been working on this guy's system (http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0142000280) recently - mostly for work.
I am a big proponent of GTD. It is "keep a to-do list of everything" on steroids. List the shit out of that shit, and then when you have time to do stuff, you ask yourself: What's most urgent? What can I get done given the resources I have on hand (i.e. am I at a computer, do I have internet access, do I have a phone)? How much time do I have right now? Am I feeling up for a challenging task, or do I just want to knock out low-hanging fruit?
I also like his rule, "When something comes in that will take you two minutes or less to do, do it NOW." That's the point where it's diminishing returns on flagging it and coming back to it later. If you can bang out a reply to that e-mail in 45 seconds, just frickin' do it. Wish more people did this.
As a result of this system, my stress level is usually directly proportional to the number of to-do items and/or flagged e-mails I have at the moment. Fortunately, the best cure for that stress is to GO GET SOME SHIT DONE. Works out well.
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Well, as for the stalemate, all I can say is that, A, it is a violation of the the Shut Up And Eat It rule to refuse to either make the list or do the list you hand over. And B, what seemed to help was making it an explicit rule and invoking it explicitly on a regular basis. Like when I start to complain that the pasta is overcooked I will stop and say "oops never mind I am going to shut up and eat this and be glad I didn't have to cook it myself."
The thing about this rule is that it appeals to both sides, it solves both problems - that you see things that need to be done, and that he is tired of being nitpicked about exactly how things are done. It is hard not to nitpick because if you are the one who sees the needs, you tend to have a precise idea of how those needs should be addressed. You have to make sure you are holding up your end of the deal too.
But God knows I am the last person you should be asking for relationship advice, seriously. And also, I have a spouse who actually enjoys doing some of these things, like changing furnace filters, so your mileage may vary.
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This sounds very much like my sister's approach. Lists, lists, and more lists; break down the tough stuff into quick stuff, and do the quick stuff now. It seems to work for her. Since I'm a book-buying freak (I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 books?) I will buy this one post-haste. Thanks for the recommendations, the both of you!
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I have co-opted the children into working with me. ...I remember all the hours I spent similarly with my father, they are happy memories.
This is brilliance.
I do this sometimes, but I think I need to invoke this more often. I mean, yes, I let Boy One sort silverware and throw things in the washer from time to time, and as long as Girl has a chair to stand on and a sink full of water, she's happy.
And I guess there are some days when you just can't win. I mean, last week Boy One had a meltdown because the washing machine was running. Literally laid on the floor kicking and screaming just because I turned the machine on. It was absolutely inexplicable and out of left field, especially since he usually loves laundry. (Until very recently, he used to lie on top of the running washer with a pillow and blanket because the sound and vibrations were very soothing to him.) I haven't been able to wash clothes while he's home and awake since - if I even open the laundry room door now, he cries. Don't know what to make of that.
It's better than it used to be. He used to scream when I started the dishwasher in our last apartment; the one in our new house is much quieter.
People tell me that it's harder with a special-need child, and I guess this is why? But I dunno, he seems like a mostly-regular kid to me, so it seems like I should be able to find ways around this more easily.
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It is my firm belief that you cannot fight the swarm.
I list and list and list. I used to carry a small notepad with me to list on. The list is the only thing that fights the swarm, because it breaks the swarm down into individuals and gives you a place to start.
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I was going to respond to this thread but I kept forgetting to. I'll tell you about my organization system later, when I get around to it.
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People tell me that it's harder with a special-need child, and I guess this is why? But I dunno, he seems like a mostly-regular kid to me, so it seems like I should be able to find ways around this more easily.
Change Is Bad for a lot of kids, not just special-needs. Our daughters had an absolute shit fit last week when we moved the cereal from one cabinet to another. Cate even announced that she would Never Eat Cereal Again until we put it back where it was. (To which we of course said, "OK, no cereal for you then." And of course that boycott lasted maybe 36 hours.)
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Change Is Bad for a lot of kids, not just special-needs. Our daughters had an absolute shit fit last week when we moved the cereal from one cabinet to another. Cate even announced that she would Never Eat Cereal Again until we put it back where it was. (To which we of course said, "OK, no cereal for you then." And of course that boycott lasted maybe 36 hours.)
Okay, here's the difference: my son will actually not eat things if they come from the wrong place. When his favorite crackers changed their packaging, he stopped eating them. Entirely. He will do this to such a degree that at one point he was about six weeks away from being put on a feeding tube due to having such a limited diet. He will literally starve himself if he doesn't have the "right" foods available. He's in occupational therapy for this and has gotten much better, but he's got a long way to go before he's eating anywhere near what an average picky-to-normal child would eat.
I don't want to make this a contest about whose kids are more difficult. I'm just saying, he takes things that every kid does and carries them to an extreme. And sometimes, those things make it impossible for me to have clean underwear, and I don't know what to do about that (besides do laundry at midnight when he's sleeping).
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I'm not an organized person, so I think the best that I can do is give you an internet hug.
*hug*
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I am so disorganized that I have no right to post in this thread after the following punctuation mark.
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I'm ADD (no H in there, it's all brain runnin') and constantly disorganized. I need either a deadline or a lot of little tasks to get something done. At work we use the SCRUM system, which tends to keep me fed with tasks that I can grok. If I can't immediately break something down into a series of steps leading to a solution, I'm basically a helpless turtle. For this reason I tend to let big projects sit until my mental triage determines that It Will Not Get Done If I Don't Start Now, and then I force myself to sit down, think out a plan, and start. The unfortunate part is that my mental triage sometimes underestimates. :(
I also have this Thing where I can only accomplish one extra task a day. Anything else looks like scaling the Himalayas after, say, dealing with the pile of mail, or getting a haircut.
What's weird is that I hated cleaning much more in college than I do now, but I did it much more when I had roomates. I think it's because I felt like if I cleaned more than them I could guilt them into doing other stuff.
Maybe what I need is a lackey. Those look handy.
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I'm not a very organised person so I won't speak to that but I like what Ash said.
All my memorie of helpiong my Dad out with stuff when I was a kid are of being told I was doing things wrong, which kind of bugs me because there is tonnes of stuff I want to learn from him and probably won't know. Some stuff I still can because time has mellowed him and made my skin thicker and other stuff I've learned on my own but it's not quite the same as learning it from your dad I think.
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And sometimes, those things make it impossible for me to have clean underwear, and I don't know what to do about that (besides do laundry at midnight when he's sleeping).
Buy more underwear.
How about going to a laundromat? Maybe it would be a fun outing.
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Buy more underwear.
How about going to a laundromat? Maybe it would be a fun outing.
That is an intriguing idea,and I might try it if I can find a laundromat that isn't sketchy. We live in an affluent suburban area where even most student apartments either have a washer and dryer included or a private laundry in the building, so laundromats are few and far between. Both of the ones I know of are scary looking (one actually shares a storefront with a payday lender/bail bonds place, and they both have bars on the windows) and usually contain very disheveled people sleeping on or near the machines.
I have been to nice laundromats in other cities, so I know they exist, but the ones here are not places I'd want to take my kids.
On another note, I have always wanted to open a diner/laundromat/arcade targeted at college students away from home for the first time. I'd have clear written instructions on all the washing machines and give away free milk or juice with balanced meals. 3 - 4 PM would be Cookie Hour. All the wait staff would encourage the students to eat their vegetables and keep their elbows off the table (politely). I'd call it "Mom's Place."
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I'd call it "Mom's Place."
*bottom lip quivers, eyes well up*
Would this only be open to students?
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Seriously, you're not checking out how to do a small business startup package in your municipality yet? Maybe with city/state/federal kick ins?
Take it from a guy who did a small to large to profitable sell starter, it's not rocket science. Table that idea until both kids are in school and then hit it.
Agreed! This is a viable business option, IMHO. And to ensure that it is actually a viable business, there are tons of free resources in pretty much any community, from SCORE to business libraries to SBA outposts.
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Let me know when you're ready to start franchising these things, JL.
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I'm an intensely organized person. I keep a to-do list in a notebook I take with me everywhere.
Beyond what others are saying, the only thing I can add, related to sanity maintainance in a happy relationship, is that I don't expect my husband to be on the same page as I am about how to organize tasks, or to be in agreement about what is the priority thing that needs doing at any particular time. We're both generally flexible in that way, which works well. He's generally less driven than I am, and I try to make peace with that. Honestly, I really need his laissez-faire attidue to balance my go-go-go nature.
It also greatly helps that he is generally interested in being supportive.
In the end, the things that get done get done and the things that don't don't typically lead to "the end of everything."
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On another note, I have always wanted to open a diner/laundromat/arcade targeted at college students away from home for the first time. I'd have clear written instructions on all the washing machines and give away free milk or juice with balanced meals. 3 - 4 PM would be Cookie Hour. All the wait staff would encourage the students to eat their vegetables and keep their elbows off the table (politely). I'd call it "Mom's Place."
I can already hear the NPR interview in my head.
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Beyond what others are saying, the only thing I can add, related to sanity maintainance in a happy relationship, is that I don't expect my husband to be on the same page as I am about how to organize tasks, or to be in agreement about what is the priority thing that needs doing at any particular time. We're both generally flexible in that way, which works well. He's generally less driven than I am, and I try to make peace with that. Honestly, I really need his laissez-faire attidue to balance my go-go-go nature.
It also greatly helps that he is generally interested in being supportive.
Amen. If only all couples had this outlook...what a blessing. In my marriage, we have the former (a laid-back attitude about what needs to be done), but not the latter (support and agreement on what needs to be done), nor motivation (to get the shit done). Thus our house is a mess and no one bothers to do anything about it until I get sick of it, and angry that I have to do it all if it's gonna get done.
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You know there is another way to approach at least some of these things, and that is to throw money at the problem. We have a housecleaner come every other week. It is a very good investment in domestic tranquility, given the number of arguments that just don't happen because of it. It doesn't get everything done, but at least there is a set of things that just never have to even get discussed.
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This is a viable business option, IMHO.
Awww. You guys are sweet. This is my retirement dream, when the kids are out of the house and we are independently wealthy and don't need to actually make money for the first few years.
Also, I would like to open a hobby and game store that sells yarn, scrapbooking/papercraft stuff, Warhammer/tabletop gaming equipment, and model-building supplies, and call it "His & Hers Hobbies." We would have frequent events that encouraged men's knitting groups, women-only Warhammer leagues, couples' "date night" events, and, of course, singles mixers. But that's a relatively recent dream that I haven't worked out as well yet. Should we have a separate thread for harebraned schemes?
You know there is another way to approach at least some of these things, and that is to throw money at the problem. We have a housecleaner come every other week. It is a very good investment in domestic tranquility, given the number of arguments that just don't happen because of it. It doesn't get everything done, but at least there is a set of things that just never have to even get discussed.
We're too short on money at the moment, having just moved, but we have already agreed to hire a lawn service as soon as our yard appears to need attention (we have so many trees and so much shade that we actually haven't had to mow the law even once since we moved in here in August). The most Pedro's had to do is blow the leaves to the street so the leaf fairies can pick them up.
And I don't mind doing the housework myself, as long as I can actually get around to doing the housework, you know? Because, in contrast to what smells said, sometimes there are things that don't get done around here that actually do lead to the scenario where things fall apart a little bit. I won't go into it because it sounds like whining, but there are days when I don't actually have time to brush my teeth, let alone do any of the other things that are necessary to keep the house going. And if I have three or four of those days in a row...it gets bad. Very bad.
Amen. If only all couples had this outlook...what a blessing. In my marriage, we have the former (a laid-back attitude about what needs to be done), but not the latter (support and agreement on what needs to be done), nor motivation (to get the shit done). Thus our house is a mess and no one bothers to do anything about it until I get sick of it, and angry that I have to do it all if it's gonna get done.
This.
Well, almost. Yes, laid-back attitude. I don't expect my home to look like a spread in Southern Living. I do expect to be able to walk through my living room without wading through ankle-deep toys (though that's fine in the playroom), and I do expect to have food to eat, clean dishes to eat off of, and clean clothes to wear. I don't remember the last time I dusted. I don't clean toilets and sinks unless they are visibly dirty *and* we have company coming. I don't clean the sink Pedro shaves in at all, because nobody uses that bathroom but him. We're talking very minimal housekeeping standards, here. And usually, I don't even manage that.
But there are larger things beyond the housework that need doing. This house is 40 years old. It wasn't well cared for these last 15 years. Things are broken that we need to fix, and managing the projects is the real challenge. Nights don't offer enough time, and Pedro doesn't like to do them on weekends because, in his mind, Saturdays are for fun and frolic.
So there's an agreement that these things need to be done, and even a motivation to do them, but it seems like what we lack is the opportunity. Either the kids are running around, or we don't have enough time to do something from start to finish while the kids are with a sitter. And I guess that's where breaking down a task into smaller components would help. But I guess it's not a communication problem or a motivation problem, it's a problem where opportunities don't readily present themselves. And I am all about creating our own opportunities, by making lists and scheduling things in advance, but that's where I get the push-back. Pedro is very spontaneous, but spontaneity doesn't usually get the bedrooms painted, you know?
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I am pro-dudeknitting.
(http://raindog.net/ljimages/scarf2b.jpg)
And why yes: That is a Ravenclaw House Scarf based around the designs from the later Harry Potter movies. DO YOU WANT TO WIZARD DUEL ABOUT IT?
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Dudeknitting is sexy.
Pedro learned how to knit as an anniversary surprise for me, so we could share a hobby.
He knitted me a fuzzy loincloth and matching bra.
I'm currently making him a sweater.
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And I don't mind doing the housework myself, as long as I can actually get around to doing the housework, you know?
Right, but hiring someone solves the problem that you don't have the time just as much as it solves the problem that I hate doing it.
This solution is not so good for the house repairs though because in my experience with that kind of stuff, even if you can afford to pay someone to do it, it can take as much time to find someone and hire them and make sure they do the job, as it takes to do the job yourself.
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Regardless, we can't afford to hire stuff out, with the aforementioned exception for lawn maintenance. Believe me, if the money were there for it, I'd find it. It's just not.
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Things are broken that we need to fix, and managing the projects is the real challenge. Nights don't offer enough time, and Pedro doesn't like to do them on weekends because, in his mind, Saturdays are for fun and frolic.
Goodgracious, I know this very, very well. To my husband, weeknights are out because his work is very stressful, and weekends are out because they are for fun and relaxation. We could afford a housekeeper, but unfortunately he has "stranger issues" and won't abide a person who is not family or friend in our house--especially when we're not here. He did agree to have someone come in in the evenings while we're home, but there's really no one around I can find who's licensed and bonded AND willing to work evenings.
My creative suggestion for you, jay-ell: do you have friends or neighbors in a similar situation--kids, not a bunch of extra money, and little free time? If so, why not form a house cleaning brigade? In desperation last week, I had a good friend over to help me clean to prepare for my parents visiting from out of state this past weekend. Turns out it's a lot more fun to clean with someone. And she and I are good enough friends that it didn't embarrass me when she was standing in my shower cursing at the inch-deep soap residue and the hair in the corner behind the shampoo bottle, you know? Between her coming over two evenings and my work Sunday before the folks arrived at my house, we got about 9 hours of cleaning done, and my house hasn't looked better in years. Maybe you could do a rotating cleaning and potluck evening a couple times a month, and the more people involved the better. Like a swarm of house elves scrubbing and vacuuming and mopping while the kids keep each other company.
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He knitted me a fuzzy loincloth and matching bra.
I'm currently making him a sweater.
This is the definition of dudeknitting.
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You know there is another way to approach at least some of these things, and that is to throw money at the problem. We have a housecleaner come every other week. It is a very good investment in domestic tranquility, given the number of arguments that just don't happen because of it. It doesn't get everything done, but at least there is a set of things that just never have to even get discussed.
A friend of mine on another board (who reminds me a bit of wombat) once said
Related to "I'd be willing to pay extra for that":
Several years ago, Jose Canseco was on The Surreal Life (he was actually the sanest person living in that house, except for maybe Corey Hart, Pink's husband/ex-husband). The housemates were assigned to landscape a yard and build a playhouse for a battered women's/children's shelter in an afternoon. As you would expect, this group of half-assed celebrities was not capable of organizing and carrying out this assignment in the alloted time, and were getting to the point where it looked like they weren't going to finish the job before the women and kids were brought in to see it at the end of the day. So Canseco says "how much is it going to cost me to get us out of this?" He was just going to call in a crew, and pay them whatever it took to get the job done.
My sisters and I now use "to Canseco" as a verb meaning "to throw as much money at the problem as is necessary to just get it done". As in "what are we going to do about all those weeds in our yard?" "I vote we just Canseco it". Or "it's going to be a pain in the ass to keep making pots of coffee for everyone coming to this brunch." "Let's Canseco it; just get a bunch of those starbucks carry-out boxes."
I offer this coinage to you all. Go forth and use it wisely.
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poor cory hart, he used to be "corey hart, you know, sunglasses at night, that guy"
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We could afford a housekeeper, but unfortunately he has "stranger issues" and won't abide a person who is not family or friend in our house--especially when we're not here.
I call bullshit on this.
So you're saying he isn't willing to do chores on his own, he isn't willing to do chores cooperatively and/or when asked, and he won't "allow" you to hire someone else to do them because of some childish "issues"? Perhaps this is a person who needs to consider whether he wants to live on his own instead of having the pleasure of living with another human being.
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poor cory hart, he used to be "corey hart, you know, sunglasses at night, that guy"
Carey. Carey Hart.
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I call bullshit on this.
So you're saying he isn't willing to do chores on his own, he isn't willing to do chores cooperatively and/or when asked, and he won't "allow" you to hire someone else to do them because of some childish "issues"? Perhaps this is a person who needs to consider whether he wants to live on his own instead of having the pleasure of living with another human being.
Yep, this is all true. Hence the earlier comment about heading toward divorce.
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My BFF is in a situation kind of like this. It's gotten to the point where he will verbally abuse her about her perceived faults in front of their eight-year-old, even after she asks him to take it behind closed doors.
I am trying to be supportive no matter what she decides, but she is sort of at the place where she can't make a decision one way or the other, so instead she just takes the abuse from him and then calls me crying and I don't know what to tell her besides what she already knows - that she either needs to get into counseling and fix things (he won't go and she is not taking the important step of going alone) and or just give up and call a lawyer already.
I love her dearly, but he has beaten the confidence out of her to the point where she will not help herself. It's tragic.
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It's weird, because he's not verbally abusive to me whatsoever...he's very respectful of me, even when I succumb to a rare fit of rage, fly off the handle, and veer toward being verbally abusive toward him. He just refuses to entertain any other needs or wants beyond his own. So I guess you could say in his extreme self-centeredness, he's unintentionally emotionally abusive. I'm a really easy-going person, who believes in letting people be themselves, and that people shouldn't try to "change" other people, so I've always just accepted and loved him how he is and appreciated his other good qualities rather than stewing over the feeling of being controlled, and becoming a doormat. Over the years I've thought about leaving many, many times; however, I've always come to the conclusion that marriage takes work on both people's parts, and there's no such thing as perfection, and thus I've been relatively content.
It's no coincidence that when I started being friends with greenkoolayd a couple of months back is when I started re-questioning what the hell I'm doing in my marriage. Not because I want to leave my husband and run away with green, but because by knowing him I've been re-exposed to so many great qualities that I realized I have really been fooling myself about not needing in my life...qualities such as a giving spirit, interest in other people, and a romantic heart. I hope to find someone with some of those qualities someday as a life partner, someone who will also want what I have to give, which is an unending well of love, compassion, and zest for life. And if I never do find that person, well, at least I'm opening myself up to the world again and taking care of myself.
The end. (I know, TL/DR, right?)
Edited to add: Good gracious, I'm probably embarrassing the hell out of greenkoolayd. I'm sorry if I did, Tones!
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Not because I want to leave my husband and run away with green
Hah. I was skimming this and thought you meant green as in 'cash'.
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OK, just so we're all clear, there is no worse reason to leave a relationship than because of some person you only know on the internet. That being said...
I think you should go ahead and hire a housecleaner and see what happens. I suspect you will learn a lot from his reaction, and whether that reaction is good or bad, it will probably be stuff that you need to know. And if your marriage falls apart at least you'll have a clean house while it happens.
The Technical Staff actually hates having the housecleaners come, incidentally. He does nothing but complain about the massive inconvenience involved - like not being able to leave the sink full of dirty dishes, and that they come the day after the trash is picked up and then go around and put more trash in the trash. Horrors. But if he's not going to take two hours to clean the house himself every other week - and he isn't - I say tough shit.
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And if your marriage falls apart at least you'll have a clean house while it happens.
Ding, and ding, and ding.
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You have succeeded in making me paranoid about cleanliness when living with a lady. I had underestimated the impact of cleanliness on a relationship, probably because I have only lived with dudes. And when living with dudes the conversation of cleanliness comes down to "Dude this place is a mess, you clean up your shit and I'll clean up mine.... annnd break"
Or some friends have just given one of the roommates a break on rent if they take on the clean up duties of common areas.
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OK, just so we're all clear, there is no worse reason to leave a relationship than because of some person you only know on the internet. That being said...
Ah, but that's the thing, that's not the reason I'm leaving. Far from it. It was just one more reason--a light that came on in the refrigerator of my head. Just to repeat, I'm not leaving my husband for greenkoolayd! I'm leaving my husband because he's a selgiraffe asshole and I deserve better.
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selgiraffe asshole
LOL, that would be self-ish.
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I didn't think you were, but it's one of those things that bears repeating.
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Damn giraffes.
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Meanwhile GK remains suspiciously silent.
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Meanwhile GK remains suspiciously silent.
Oh, Paul, you're so cute when you're stirring up shit. ;) Nah, he's just at school right now. Besides, what the heck could he say? "Yes, it's true that Jennifer is not leaving her husband because of me"? Honestly, he's in this story simply because (a) he is awesome, and (b) he is helping me through my confusion. There's no need to make statements or declarations or defend or promote anything, is there? He's just my friend, is all. And I'm glad for it.
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i wondered why my ears were burning.....
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Jennifer?! Is... is that you, dear?!?
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Rough Chuckles
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I discovered Google Reader yesterday, when I attained Inbox Zero status for the first time in years.
It's totally allowed me to organize my web browsing!
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organize my web browsing!
What? What is that, some kind of foreign language? It almost looks like English, but the words don't make sense in that order.
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I have Airwolf. This is not code language. I am flying Airwolf because I own Airwolf.
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Nothing else could make more sense.
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okay sorry for posting before reading this entire thread, but I feel like I have something relevant to say but I don't feel like I have time to digest all 6 pages right now.
regarding lists, it has occurred to me that "lists" can serve one or both of the following functions for a person:
*organization: by putting items together into a related group, it helps to establish and/or maintain a sense of organization. Each 'group' of items is a distinct list, on a distinct page of paper.
*memory: by writing items down, it helps to remember these items. Personally, I have a terrible memory, and so I expend a lot of mental effort and stress and anxiety trying to remember things. Writing things down helps this.
Note that it's sort of a circular thing -- part of the reason I have trouble remembering things is that I'm very disorganized; if I had an organized sense of what was going on in my life, then remembering the different things I need to do would be much easier because each of these things would be 'associated' in my mind with their individual places in the overall organizational paradigm. much of memory is associative. but I am not organized, and so consequentially my memory is terrible, which in turn doesn't help my organization... see.. it's circular.
Now, the problem with lists is that lists are inherently organized and structured. You might think -- Yes, but isn't that the point of a list? Well yes, but that can be a problem. I'm guessing that the 'normal' person (someone without massive stress due to ADHD, etc) who makes lists does much of the organization in their mind. By the time they make out a list, they already have their life organized, and the list is merely a memory aid -- nothing more. For these people, the list is not an organizational aid. They might say that the lists help them to organize their thoughts, but, in reality, the making out of the list is at most a peripheral component of the organizational process which happens naturally and automatically in their mind's eye.
For those of us who are not naturally and automatically organized, the structure and organization that is inherent in a list can be a huge hindrance. Those of us with issues such as ADHD do not have a completely structured thought process. Ideas and worries and aspirations may occur to us in any random order, and so as we write down a 'list' of what's on our mind, what we are writing down is a not organized, is not even a rough draft, it's perhaps nothing more than a stream of consciousness. Okay this is not completely accurate; our thoughts may well be organized on some level. E.g., personally, I'm able to solve very complex problems, so long as the problem in question is in a limited context, and deals with generally homogeneous concepts. E.g. I can tear apart a car engine and rebuild it with no problem. I can fix the roof for Gladys (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/apocalypse-lane/752-Episode-One-Big-Petes-Funeral). I can write a love letter to my cat. But when it comes to organizing this mix of heterogeneous tasks, each one relative to the other, that's where I totally fail. I can't prioritize, I can't comprehend the complex mix of apples and oranges that life continually throws at a person.
So if it is a viscous circle of molasses where poor memory results in poor organization/structure and where poor organization/structure results in poor memory, then certainly, we can start with ameliorating either one and hope to achieve some sort of positive results.
Personally, I chose to start with memory, since memory is a relatively simple function, as compared to organization, something which is a foreign concept to me.
The problem I have with memory is that as I write down lists of items I wish to remember, as I stream my consciousness onto paper, the consciousness automatically takes on a form and a structure, as my list grows. Immediately, I find myself trying to improve the inadequate structure which is organically springing forward... I say to myself, well this item relates more to car maintenance than it does to school, so I'm going to shove it off onto another page of my notebook here, and this page will be a list of things related to car maintenance...
and I mean, this works fine for most people, but my personal experience has been that it simply does not work for people with ADHD. If I could organize my thoughts, then I wouldn't be sitting down at a loss, trying to sort through my thoughts on a micro-management sort of level, trying over 99 different permutations of arrangements of lists and never finding the one that works for me. I swear, I've tried it all... I've tried breaking my life down into thematic concepts... After the lists about things related to my car and house and school and so on fail me, then eventually I say, well, hey, maybe the list needs to be not about my 'cars' but instead about 'transportation' in general, since that's actually what I use the cars for...
so anyway, long story short, the solution is to not make lists. don't do it. Separate memory from organization. 'Normal' people are able to remember stuff, so ADHD people should be able to remember stuff also, without it being a huge hassle and without agonizing over what list the item to be remembered should be 'remembered' under. If you agonize over the organization of each item you're trying to remember, you've already lost the battle. You're diverting time and energy away from the act of remembering. You're plunging into the miasma of ADHD head-first, and you're creating and feeding stress and anxiety. Memory is normally associative, but for someone with ADHD, maybe it simply can't be associative... At least, not in the normal structured way that we normally envision conceptual associations as existing and manifesting themselves in.
So what I do now is when I want to remember something, I don't put it in a list. I put it on a note card. One note card per idea or concept or task or hope or dream or expectation that I have for myself. The wonderful thing about a pile of note cards on a desk is that there is no inherent structure. You don't have to worry about committing to a structure at the time that you create the record. A pile of notecards is essentially a big ol' random access database. I find that since I've started using note cards, I actually remember things much more easily, simply because I no longer feel anxiety about the possibility of forgetting something.
Remember, even if something is written down into a list, you can still forget it if you miscategorized it, if you picked the wrong list. And even if you put it in the right list, the item may still be just as good as forgotten, since the whole idea behind lists is that they are an organizational tool - an organizational paradigm. And one inherent aspect of organization is compromise... You prioritize your things to do, you pick your battles. And well, if you use the wrong organizational scheme, you'll find that items that shouldn't be forgotten *are* forgotten, in the sense that they're relegated to a lower priority when perhaps they shouldn't have been, they're put in the wrong list, or they're put in the right list but the list winds up being the wrong paradigm in the first place, when considered in the larger context of all the other lists... This is, I believe, a constant source of ongoing stress and anxiety for people with ADHD--This recurring experience of finding one's self failed by one's organizational paradigm in this manner leads to this persistent fear and anxiety that every time you file something away in the paradigm, it's being misfiled and it will come back to haunt you. So this is why I say -- Don't do it... don't make lists. Don't file things.
So what I do now is, only occasionally, I will go through my pile of note cards and pull them together into groups of notecards... These groups are like lists. The thing is, the process is dynamic. I can adjust each list on the fly, as my needs and circumstances change. I think that this dynamic rearrangement is constantly going on in the 'normal' person's mind, but for whatever reasons, it doesn't occur so well in the ADHD person's mind. One nice thing about using note cards in this manner is that I can do my rearranging at whatever time is best for me, when I feel like my mind is working. Many people who have ADHD have the experience of being able to cognitively organize their thoughts and ideas fairly well at least during part of the day, or at least during part of some days, and I have this same experience. So I find that being able to flip through my note cards, and pull out those that are relevant to me now, at this point in time, is useful for me.
The whole idea, I think, is to offload as much as possible the rote and repetitive and memory-type functions from the brain, and let the note cards stand in and carry out these functions. This leaves the brain free to focus more on what no organizational system can do for you, which is to actually figure out what it is you want to do with your day, and your life. This sense of what you are doing with your time is sort of the architectural keystone of your cognitive process, and for this sense to develop and maintain it's self, the subordinate cognitive functions (such as memory) upon which it relies must be working reasonably well. My guess is that the note cards, at least in my own case, successfully replicate some of the function that is shot to hell in my own brain.
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I think you deserve a serious answer to this but until I have time to make one, I will simply say that your organizational needs can be met by outsourcing to a midget hive:
http://midgetmanifesto.50megs.com/
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You have described the hipster PDA (http://www.43folders.com/2004/09/03/introducing-the-hipster-pda).
It's a neat concept. I might give it a shot, actually. Pedro used it for a while, but then he got an iTouch.
After reading this post (well, most of it), I'm now convinced that I have ADHD (on top of being, as Bobby points out, an unrepentant aspie).
I just wonder how much of the difficulties (yours, mine, ours) could be classified as part of ADHD and ASD and how much of it is just stuff that everyone deals with because the human brain is not designed to work linearly? I mean, everybody I know struggles with organization. Even the people who have it together admit that they've spent a lot of time developing and learning a system - they've had to work to make it second nature, because it certainly isn't human nature.
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Yeah, that system is straight out of Getting Things Done (http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0142000280/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262617415&sr=8-1). I have used a pretty similar system in the past, although I've migrated to Remember the Milk (http://www.rememberthemilk).
In fact, I have recommended an index card based system for my Mother. She has lost/is losing her memory and is trying to compensate by making lots of little lists. Problem is she makes lists on myriad little pads of paper and then losing track of the lists. So I'm trying to get her to make all her notes on index cards which she keeps together and shuffles through.
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In fact, I have recommended an index card based system for my Mother. She has lost/is losing her memory and is trying to compensate by making lots of little lists. Problem is she makes lists on myriad little pads of paper and then losing track of the lists.
Wow that's exactly what I used to do. I would loose all my lists, not that they made any sense to me anyway, but I would loose them all to the point where they just may as well have not existed.
I just wonder how much of the difficulties (yours, mine, ours) could be classified as part of ADHD and ASD and how much of it is just stuff that everyone deals with because the human brain is not designed to work linearly? I mean, everybody I know struggles with organization. Even the people who have it together admit that they've spent a lot of time developing and learning a system - they've had to work to make it second nature, because it certainly isn't human nature.
Well it's easy to say that a certain portion of the population does suffer from ADHD.
Okay, I'll qualify that -- we are in the USA -- I don't think you'll find a 1st world country where the general population is more hostile to science, so a large portion of the population does have beliefs which stem from superstitions and political bias and such, so there is a large portion of the population that believes that ADHD isn't real... More so in the South and Midwest, it seems. On the subject of ADHD, I have here a book by one "David B. Stein, PhD." titled "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco -- Successful Parenting Without Drugs" It's really hard to say what's more dangerous about this book - the patently false ideas it pedals, or the fallacious methods of reasoning which it teaches the reader. In the end, it's the same old sad mix of patriarchal, sexist, and classist ethnocentric garbage that not thinking straight always seems to yield. I'm not saying that the book didn't have a couple of valid premises - it did - but it just went off into left field with them, and the author is unfortunately unable to differentiate between the activities of the medical and scientific professions which are scientifically and statistically valid and those which are not... sure the medical profession has problems, sure there are quacks who are just glorified pill pushes, and sure we have way too many kids on medication who shouldn't be. But that doesn't automatically turn all of modern medical science into a snake-oil scam...
So, the foregoing not withstanding, certainly, the consensus of the medical and scientific community is that ADHD is a very real and serious disorder which significantly impacts the quality of life of an alarmingly large portion of the population.
But to be able to draw the line between clinical ADHD and just, the normal level of difficulty the average person faces in organizing themselves, that's much more difficult to do on an individual case-by-case basis. You really have to be an experienced professional - experienced not only with ADHD, but also with psychiatry in general so as to be able to see what else might be going on concurrent with or in lieu of suspected ADHD. It's relatively rare that you find just ADHD all on it's own.
Of course, while ADHD certainly has been proven to be very real, it's certainly a valid question, and you'd have to be kind of out of it to not ask this question, it's a valid question to ask if the problems that many people with ADHD suffer from are not exacerbated by, or perhaps even caused in whole by, the complex and inherently chaotic nature of our modern life. Personally, I'm convinced that to a large extent, the answer is yes, that many individuals who have significant dysfunction caused by ADHD in the context of our present day society and culture would not be dysfunctional at all in the context of the culture and social structure several generations ago. Conversely, many individuals who are dysfunctional today would likely be dysfunctional several generations ago, although perhaps not as significantly. Taking my personal case, for example, when you trace back up the family tree, you find a consistent pattern of psychiatric symptoms consistent with nervous, anxiety, and inattention, but for the most part most people in the family tree were functional. Except for that one serial killer, but that was maybe just a one-off case. But then you get down to my generation, and you look at me, my sibling, and my cousins, and holy shit, you got more dysfunction than you can shake a stick at. ADHD, anorexia, depression, drug abuse, anxiety, etc. In my grand parents day, you could be an alcoholic and still run a business. Now, college kids gots 5 credit cards such as are more complicated to manage in and of themselves than any of the accounts receivable and payable of a small business of yesteryear. ya with me? shit's gettin' insane complex these days.
And so, the problem we have here, is, if we can magically cure everyone who has ADHD today, well nothing's 100% with this stuff, but if we can at least cause everyone who HAS ADHD to have ADHD LESS... to the point where they can function and be as happy as everyone else.... it don't matter! It's moot because all these happy idiots are going to do is they are going to engage in such schemes and dreams as are going to push forward the wheels of modern so-called progress, all of which will only make our lives even more complex! And then the people who had ADHD to a LESSER DEGREE will then find that they are having ADHD ALL OVER AGAIN as the level of complexity of our life increases.
So my approach to this complexity of modern life has always been, as much as I can possibly get away with, is to pretend it's not there. I'm a computer science geek, so I know how this stuff works. I can pull my motorcycle up to a parking lot toll booth and I know exactly what's going on with the magnetic fields and everything to where I need to position my bike just so to get the toll booth to trigger... but I don't. I pull up any which way, and then I sit there as the toll booth person has to call her supervisor to over-ride the gate. I'm just an ashole about technology that way. I'm like 'fuk this shit, why is this sht got to be my problem?' I fckin' hate technology.
Maybe a better example.. I was at the grocery store, and I was standing in line, and the checkout person tells me he is closed. And I'm like "it says on your screen that you're open" and he is like "yeah that's cause I'm still finishing this sale. but the sign behind you says I'm closed." And I looked, and sure enough, I had not noticed the little placard shoved up among the magazines and such saying he's closed. So I argued with him and I saw that was pointless, so I went and bitched at the customer service counter for like 5 minutes with this lady, and she simply did not comprehend the concept I was telling her. if that's what the computer does, then make the computer to not do that in that situation, ya know...
or at the little small town airport where I used to live in the midwest, it had one baggage carousel, and they built it slightly too short. it curved in basically a circle shape, and everyone would stand around it. well as it happened, the tiles on the floor around it were a different color when you got 5 feet away from it, and as it happened, if everyone would stand back 5 feet, then the radius of the people circle would be big enough for everyone to fit at the same time without falling over each other. But no, everyone would rush in as close as possible. Like they was all retarded or something. Like they all had ADHD or something.
So. yeah. Life is pretty difficult these days. Especially when you have ADHD.
So anyway. I'm thinking maybe I'll move out to Oregon or Washington or something. Maybe move into an intentional community. (http://www.ic.org/) Maybe start my own one of these days. Meanwhile I'm working on some theoretical garbage to decomplexify society's organization. There's way too fcking much idiotic technology and systems and complexity in our lives today. And it's all garbage, right. cars, computers, cell phones. fck all that sht.
okay, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread with my bitching. I guess in summary, a concealed handgun can be the solution to some of a person's organization challenges. Especially when the jerk at the grocery store has two signs up that contradict each other.
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okay, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread with my bitching. I guess in summary, a concealed handgun can be the solution to some of a person's organization challenges. Especially when the jerk at the grocery store has two signs up that contradict each other.
I LOL'd
that was very reminiscent of an old Dave Barry piece about using yoga techniques for anger management. Close your eyes, take a deep breath, making sure to inhale slowly and evenly. Think about a peaceful place such as a warm sunlit meadow or a deserted beach, and as you exhale, be sure to slowly and evenly SQUEEEEEEEZE the trigger.
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I have Airwolf. This is not code language. I am flying Airwolf because I own Airwolf.
May I go for a ride in your Wolf of the Air?
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I've been hoping for a thread where I could mention the fact that a friend of mine in Baltimore has a rat problem in her house, and everything else having failed, she has dealt with it by buying a handgun. (I mention that it is specifically Baltimore for Bobby's enjoyment.)
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I've been hoping for a thread where I could mention the fact that a friend of mine in Baltimore has a rat problem in her house, and everything else having failed, she has dealt with it by buying a handgun. (I mention that it is specifically Baltimore for Bobby's enjoyment.)
Now I am picturing rats with Kevlar vests. What sort of animal would one get to deal with Baltimore rats? A cat would not do. Badger, perhaps?
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Now I am picturing rats with Kevlar vests. What sort of animal would one get to deal with Baltimore rats? A cat would not do. Badger, perhaps?
A honey badger, of course.
Lick a Honey Badger's shitty ass!
Suck a constipated goat's dick!
Lick a Llama's sweaty balls!
Taste a Panda's shitty ass!
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Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
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Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
Mushroom.
Mushroom.
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A snake, a snake, whoooaaah, it's a snake.
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Spleen flensing.
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Goodgracious, I know this very, very well. To my husband, weeknights are out because his work is very stressful, and weekends are out because they are for fun and relaxation. We could afford a housekeeper, but unfortunately he has "stranger issues" and won't abide a person who is not family or friend in our house--especially when we're not here. He did agree to have someone come in in the evenings while we're home, but there's really no one around I can find who's licensed and bonded AND willing to work evenings.
Check out Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry & Controlling Men." It's a great book that describes all sorts of controlling & abusive behavior. Of course, women and men can be angry and controlling (and Bancroft does acknowledge this in his book, he's worked for years as an expert helping rehabilitate abusers when possible). I was left scratching my head, saying things like, "OH! I didn't know that was abusive, now I see why!"
Another good book recommendation: Gavin De Becker's "The Gift of Fear."
But seriously, check Bancroft's book out. I think it should be required reading for all humans, personally. Oh, just make sure you hide the book so your husband doesn't find it. Seriously. Best of luck to you.
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Thanks, kellichou, the moment I read your post I ordered the Bancroft book to my Amazon Kindle. I'll start reading it in about 1 hour and 36 minutes, as soon as I get home from work. :) Thanks again.
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This is an interesting topic, because I have ADHD (inattentive subtype) and my sister is hyper-organized and very anal about it, and she's constantly harping on me about ways I could and should be more organized and all that stuff. It's caused some friction between us and I've finally convinced her that where she feels she is caring about me and helping me, to me it's her telling me I suck and need to be fixed to be more like her.
This is me with my roommate, except that he is only anal-organized about school stuff. I found out over break that my suspicion is correct, and he does in fact talk shit about me to all of my friends, "DB is so lazy, DB sleeps too much, DB doesn't do his work." He does all his work in advance, sleeps like 5 hrs a night, writes fiction in his free time, etc.
Does he do dishes, or clean the house, or even fold his laundry? No. He basically lives like an animal.
An animal that works really hard and gets a lot done.
It is hard sometimes to get a reasonable perspective on this. I mean, I feel really lazy sitting next to my roommate. But he works stupidly hard, and is miserable because of it. He is a grumpy, irritable, aggressive person who needs to drink less coffee and get more sleep. Also, stop being incredible pretentious. As it is, he does not get why girls do not want to date him.
I told my girlfriend, who is also super-productive and responsible, that he does this (talk about me) and she said "fuck him, I love you." Which was nice. She does not pester me about things, but it makes me feel really shitty when I realize how many things she is juggling, when I am having trouble doing "school + girlfriend + radio." And before that, I was struggling with just "school + radio." She is more like "school + radio + work + boyfriend + awesome."
I am incredibly unorganized. In school up through partway into high school this was fine, and I did great. College has kind of been a wash. Every semester I say "ok, this is my semester, I am going to challenge myself and work really hard." And then it doesn't happen. Last semester was supposed to be my "easy" semester and I got my worst grades ever. Classes I thought I could put on the back burner came back to bite me in the ass. The classes that should have been hard are the ones I did well in, because I realized there was a lot of work and so I kept it in mind. It also helped that JL edited that paper for me (thanks! I did not get notes back on the final draft, but I think I must have done very well based on my final grade). I am really horrible at using my time in productive ways. The thought of making my time more structured and organized makes me want to die, because... yeah, basically it sounds like hell. There were a few months last year where I got my shit in gear, worked really hard, partied hard on the weekend to blow off steam, and was starting to get into a rhythm... and then something happened, I forget what, and I completely fucked up the end of the semester.
I am into making lists and putting them on post-its... but this thing happens where I'll be sitting there, and suddenly I realize this neon orange post-it is still on my wall from 2 months before.
I am diagnosed as ADD, but I have no idea of what is the ADD and what is just laziness and lack of willpower, etc. I know this is a false distinction, but I can't stop thinking in this way. I am supposed to take medicine, but I am horrible about remembering to take it. I also am not sure how much of a difference it makes at this point... it's hard to tell without taking it consistently.
I have noticed, though, that when I take it I notice things that I have never noticed. For instance, I notice the bright orange post-its that have been on my wall for months.
I am confused because I am told I was diagnosed with "minor" ADD, but I have also been told stories about my mother getting into huge arguments because they didn't want to let me into my (elementary/middle/high) school because I had too many learning issues. I also have, apparently, a really high IQ, but I do not really buy the idea of IQ.
So now I'm looking for a job. Yeeesh.
I try to think a lot about this thing a DJ I like said (Tom Sharpling, on WFMU)... it is not eloquent, but it is true. He was responding to Kanye explaining the Taylor Swift thing with all this bull about "you know, i've had a hard life, i worked hard to get where I am, blah blah blah."
He was like. "Shut up. Shut up. Everything is hard. No one has ever done anything that wasn't hard. Everything has always been hard, for everyone."
I get into a pattern and chug along fuck*ng up for a while, and then I wake up at night and realize that I am doing a horrible job at everything. Like, I cannot think of an area of my life where I would say I am doing my best. Maybe with "being a good boyfriend" stuff.
When I worked at a burrito place a few years ago my boss said once that I was a "hard worker," and I realized I had literally never heard someone say that to me in my life.
It is going to suck in a few years when I decide I want to apply to grad school, and I do not get into grad school. Blargh.
Oh, and for the record, my mom just tells me I need to "work harder." Whatever that means.
I get this too. But I have less of a retort than you do. I do not see, based on your described lifestyle, how you could "work harder."
My friend, who has similar issues as I do, was once describing to me an argument he had with his mom. This quickly turned into us screaming at each other.
WHY DON'T YOU JUST DO YOUR WORK, DANIEL
WHY DON'T YOU TRY BEING ORGANIZED, JACK
HAVE YOU TRIED JUST DOING YOUR WORK, JACK?
etc. It was kind of nice to know that other people get given advice which does nothing except make you angry. "Oh, thanks mom. I'll just work harder. I hadn't thought of trying that."
I also like his rule, "When something comes in that will take you two minutes or less to do, do it NOW." That's the point where it's diminishing returns on flagging it and coming back to it later. If you can bang out a reply to that e-mail in 45 seconds, just frickin' do it. Wish more people did this.
This is a big thing for me. I always think that everything will take a really long time. When I realize that things will not take that long and do them, it is such a good feeling. I think the solution is that when I list things, I should estimate how long they will take. YEAH.
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How does the "eat it and shut up" method work if the person you live with is happy living in their own shit?
I just spent well over an hour cleaning my bathroom. Due to the fact that this house is old, it will basically never look clean enough for me. I WANT TO RIP APART AND RE-DO THIS BATHROOM. ahhh.
1. re-do floor, so that it is not lots of tiny tiles with dark-colored grout in between. the tiles have lots of spots on them and stuff from wearing away over the years, and so the floor always looks dirty
2. re-install toilet so that it is connected to the floor (the grout has worn away, and it basically shimmies around at will)
3. actually probably replace the toilet with one that is not at least 50 years old
4. new shower rods that are not rusted (i guess I could do this one.)
5. swap out window so that it isn't all drafty and frigid in there... come on!
6. make the window-sill like 4 inches lower, for shower make-outs.
7. replace sink, which has worn away in some places so that there is a permanent brown spot
...yeah, I would probably start these projects and never finish.
I spent so long scrubbing the tub with every possible bathtub cleaner, but it is still not clean.
proactive steps I will take to make this bathroom infinitel cleaner:
1. buy a toothbrush holder/ put a cup in the bathroom to hold toothbrushes.
a. no toothbrushes lying around on the counter
b. no toothpaste
c. avoid having to be the ass who is like, "dude, put away your toothbrush, come on."
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So basically you live in the fight club house. Thats kind of cool.
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My bathroom is also dingy and old. I am redoing it in bits as the finances allow. Next up: the leaking, shimmying toilet.
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it isn't as gross as the fight club house. it's just... old.
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Yeah, if you live in an older house those are all things you simply have to get used to, unless you own it and are able to do renovations yourself. Windows can be extremely difficult and expensive to replace in old buildings, but you can help eliminate the drafts by taping plastic over them. They make kits for this that work really well. The floors you can hide with a big bathroom mat.
You are in college though, so as long as your place doesn't have a bug problem and you only see the occasional penis you're doing pretty good.
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Sometimes the wife and I feel guilty about out lack of organization and basic adult skills. She said once: "we're just adult enough to get along."
I said this to my therapist once and she said "and you know, God bless you. I see so many people twisted up over planning every little thing."
So, I dunno. It's good and bad, I guess.
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Oh god inev, you will have plenty of time later in your life to replace toilets. At your age you are just supposed to pee in them and then go out and live life.
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Oh god inev, you will have plenty of time later in your life to replace toilets. At your age you are just supposed to pee in them and then go out and live life.
youre right, but on the other hand, its good for a person who has a naturally self-lit fire under their ass to keep that aspect well exercised. knawmean?
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Oh god inev, you will have plenty of time later in your life to replace toilets. At your age you are just supposed to pee in them and then go out and live life.
And now i have a new signature
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If I'd known that sentence was going to be semi-immortalized I'd have edited it a bit, but anyway it's nice to know an upstanding young fellow who appreciates the wisdom of his elders.
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also, what about #2?