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[littlefallsmets]

Sometimes meaning well without putting thought into it is worse than not meaning well at all.

Some people don't get that and... a lot of them are bureaucrats, absolutely.

Sorry you gotta deal with that shit, jayelle.

[side_show]

I got you JL.  I think the thing is that mostly social workers end up helping out families that struggle because of financial constraints.  So the typical answer she gets to the "why isn't your kid wearing clothes that fit?" question is probably "because we are experiencing poverty."  She's working on what is most normal to her experience, while in your case, your situation is exceptional in a lot of ways, and let's face it, social workers don't typically work with exceptional situations, they work with the common denominators of social challenges - poverty.  I'm not sure if it's the same in your area, but in mine social workers work on a a handful of the same problems with about a 30-80 families a piece:  poverty, lack of safe, affordable housing, lack of education, mental health issues and abuse.  She likely also works predominantly with parents who are not the most resourceful, educated or good at self advocacy.  None of these things describe you. Which means she's used to suggesting resources that, while old news to you, are useful to the group she likely most commonly works with.   What can I say but that any social worker I know is of little use to a person of your standing - you're educated, well spoken and are able to identify the needs of your family and then source out the best possible options for addressing these needs.  That is the exact opposite of the sort of person a social worker is trained to work with.  

I did have a thought, I'm not sure if it helps or not, but you never know:  one of my BF's is a stay-at-home mom who sews close to 100% of the clothes for both her kids, and also runs a couple on-line shops where she custom makes stuff.  If you were up for sending her your girl's measurements along with a budget, I'm willing to bet she could sew you up a bunch of clothes for the same price or less as buying stuff that doesn't fit in the store.  Here's her blog full of adorable pictures of both my godchildren decked out almost entirely in stuff she sews.  If you're interested, let me know and I'll hook you up.  She made me a shirt for $4 last year, and it was both nice looking and fit perfectly, and that never, ever happens.  If there's any question of her skills, here's the amazing halloween costume she made for my godson a couple years ago.

[jay-ell]

Now *that* is useful info. Thanks.

I want to reiterate that I totally get where the lady was coming from. I just don't like what it says about the way people view my family from the outside.

[side_show]

A social worker can look at any family and see ways that she can help, so it's not about how your family in particular is viewed.  There are some situations in which she would be liable and required to make follow up inquiries about, and ill-fitting clothes are one of them.  Ill fitting clothes can be a sign of neglect, and while in your case it's clearly not the case, in others it may be.  Social workers are tasked with checking into any such concerns because in other cases a small concern is the tip of an iceberg. Given the times I've seen horrible abuse or neglect be uncovered, I'd rather social workers follow up on a thousand false concerns than miss investigating the one true one.

Both the question about the clothes and about whether she dressed herself were standard questions to access possible neglect.  Just like if a  neighbor was walking by your house, heard a lot of screaming and knocks on your door to ask if you're okay, and you explain that you're fine and were playing a heated boss battle and screaming at the screen.  No doubt you would explain yourself clearly in either situation and send either person on their merry way.  No need for embarassment, realy.  We're all responsible for being a community and asking "are things okay?" Most times the answer is "yes" but sometimes it's "no, I need help" or "fuck off, I'm doing something really shitty and trying to hide it."

[Nabubrush]

In the best possible situation that is a discussion that must be extremely difficult on both sides.

[pmcd9]

If you're interested, let me know and I'll hook you up.  She made me a shirt for $4 last year, and it was both nice looking and fit perfectly, and that never, ever happens.  If there's any question of her skills, here's the amazing halloween costume she made for my godson a couple years ago.

Can I contact her?

[jay-ell]

A social worker can look at any family and see ways that she can help, so it's not about how your family in particular is viewed.  There are some situations in which she would be liable and required to make follow up inquiries about, and ill-fitting clothes are one of them.  Ill fitting clothes can be a sign of neglect, and while in your case it's clearly not the case, in others it may be.  Social workers are tasked with checking into any such concerns because in other cases a small concern is the tip of an iceberg. Given the times I've seen horrible abuse or neglect be uncovered, I'd rather social workers follow up on a thousand false concerns than miss investigating the one true one.

Both the question about the clothes and about whether she dressed herself were standard questions to access possible neglect.  Just like if a  neighbor was walking by your house, heard a lot of screaming and knocks on your door to ask if you're okay, and you explain that you're fine and were playing a heated boss battle and screaming at the screen.  No doubt you would explain yourself clearly in either situation and send either person on their merry way.  No need for embarassment, realy.  We're all responsible for being a community and asking "are things okay?" Most times the answer is "yes" but sometimes it's "no, I need help" or "fuck off, I'm doing something really shitty and trying to hide it."

That makes a lot of sense. That actually makes me feel better. Thanks.

I am very tempted to contact your friend, but I am very gun-shy about not being able to try stuff on her. That's how I ended up with a closetful of clothes that show her buttcrack. I discovered today that the one place I was able to find her ##### that fit (that I didn't even have to hem!) is going to be open again next week. It's a boutique line of children's clothing that I seriously cannot afford ($58 for a girl's jersey knit dress?!?), but they are made here in Raleigh and four times a year they open their warehouse for a big clearance sale of the previous year's styles.

We went to the one last fall and my Mom spent $400 on 4 pant/top sets and 3 dresses, which are the only things in her closet that still fit. (I cleaned out her closet today in a fit of rage and frustration -- she got all new clothes at the beginning of the school year and she's down to 7 outfits that actually fit right. I could retch.) I checked their clearance deals online, and it looks like they still have some of the same styles that worked for her last year -- their tunic tops are fabulous on her -- for a lot less. The tent sale next week is being advertised as "nothing over $15," so if I can find her sizes I might actually be able to fill out her wardrobe for a reasonable sum.

The big question is, will there be enough of the stuff that fits her in the sizes she needs for the right season? When we were there before, most of the stuff that would have fit her that was on the 50% off rack was spring and summer stuff, but she needed fall. And I dare not buy her clothes more than a season ahead, because her growth is so erratic that she might be 2 sizes bigger by June, or she might not have grown at all.

Pedro, meanwhile, wanted to take her out tonight and try his hand at finding clothes that fit her. Not because he thought he'd be any more successful than I, but because he wanted to be able to sympathize and understand. So I sent my Mom with him, because I thought (a) it would help to have an extra person wrangling the wild four-year-old, and (b) I thought she might learn a little bit about how ridiculous it was for her to suggest that all my problems would be solved if I just bought her a bunch of long camisoles for her to wear under her clothes.

It appears to have worked on several fronts; they tried on a dozen different pant/shirt combos and found two that would do. One was a pair of black size 10 capri ##### on clearance for $5 that fit her like leggings but actually came up high enough to cover her butt. The other was a pair of size 12 denim shorts -- shorts! -- that are labeled "over the knee." Well, they sure are -- they're right over the knee and down to the ankle. They look adorable; they're her first pair of "jeans." But that is how ridiculous her size is -- they are shorts for a middle schooler, and they fit my four-year old like long #####. That...is just fuck*ng bizarre.

And that is also why "buy a bigger size and roll them up" is so far outside of the realm of possibility that this oft-chirped kernel of wisdom makes me want to punch people in the throat.

OH and BY the WAY -- I am up at 3 AM because I am still upset, and because I have to do laundry at midnight so as not to cause my OTHER kid to have a COMPLETE MELTDOWN at the sound of the washing machine being turned on. He's off school for three weeks, and I had a head cold last week that made me really not want to stay up late to do laundry after he fell asleep, which is why I had to dip into the "slightly too small" dregs of clean clothes this morning for school. Just in case you were wondering.

And I think that's my quota for whining for the rest of the year. Sorry to be a bummer. It's just been nonstop for a few weeks now. But this time next week, I'll be basking in the luxury of an indoor water park for three days, celebrating Boyface's seventh birthday and looking back at his birthday party (which is Saturday) with calm fondness.

Oh, and tomorrow I'm seeing TMBG with Jonathan Coulton as a belated birthday gift from Pedro. Assuming I can stop crying and bitching about my daughter's wardrobe malfunctions and get off my ass long enough to clean my house before my in-laws arrive to babysit.

ONE LAST QUESTION, I swear: Should I contact the teacher and let her know what's up? In case the social worker calls her for a follow-up? I know this teacher well, she also taught my son 2 years ago and this is Girlface's second year in her class, I don't want her to be in the dark and I think she will be sympathetic and understanding if I talk to her about it. But I also don't want to come off as being whiny, and I'm afraid that people don't really believe me when I tell them that the problem is more complicated than "buy a bigger size." I have a long email explaining the whole issue in detail, but I don't know if I should send it or not. Thoughts?

[jay-ell]

No. The teacher sees your kid all the time and prolly has a clue. If the teacher is contacted by social services it will be for super-secret background investigation on whether you suck or not and I doubt an email is going to sway that opinion at this point.

Pertinent fact: the social worker said she asked Teach what was up with the crack attack and Teach said, "no clue." I have previously complained to Teach about not being able to find clothes that fit Girlface appropriately so I don't really know why she would have punted on it (unless she was busy getting her class from one end of the school to the other and didn't really get why the social worker was asking). I would have thought that, if asked, a teacher who has known my family for 3 years would have said, "Girl's mom can't find clothes that fit, there's no social ill that needs fixing here."

The fact that she feigned ignorance puzzles me. It makes me wonder if she doesn't remember our conversation about finding clothes that fit or just didn't believe me when I told her that sizing up doesn't solve the buttcheek problem. Hence my instinct to contact her with a heads-up.

[side_show]

In regard to the teacher thing - I'd say a conversation is better than an email, so that she can ask the questions she need to get a better understanding.  Why not talk to her, even just to put your mind at ease?  Like you said, it's not a secret that Girlface is a different size than her classmates, and educating her teacher on the challenges of that is well within your roll as her mama.  You have to keep reminding yourself that you have no reason to be ashamed.  You're doing the best with the tools you have.  Most moms are self concious about the appearance of their children, so teacher probably brushed off your previous comment as typical chatter rather than an actual thing you're challenged by on a daily basis.  The thing you're faced with, both with teacher and with social worker is that your kid is exceptional, and both people are used to putting everyone in the same box.  That's not going to work for you and Girlface and other people need constant reminders of that, because it's far easier to be lazy than creative.

When it comes to the clothes there are a couple things - if you do have ##### or other clothes that fit her pretty well, that's even better because you can provide exact measurements of the clothes themselves.  Infact, you could always go on Etsy and search for sewers in your area, bring them the ##### that fit, along with some fabric and ask them to replicate them in a number of colours and styles.  In the mean time, is it okay if I explain your situation to my friend?  I'd like to gift you a pair of ##### so you can figure out if this is an option.  Afterall, Girlface helped choose some adorable socks for me, and I wont forget that.  If it makes you feel any better, my friend is also a pretty cool mutant herself - she has a congenital heart defect and had valve replacement in the last year, so she's got cow parts and a battery powered pacemaker.  Here's the blog post her brother wrote about her coming to after the surgery that had me in tears.  She's doing better than ever a year later, which is awesome beyond words. 

As for your question Paul, you can certainly contact her too.

[AugustWest]

The egg man thinks trying is for the chumps.

No, the egg man knows that there are limited working hours in the day and several hundred children in the school.  Better to determine whether work needs to be done before spending the time doing it.  Then one's work time can be spent where it'll do some good.

[wombat]

The fact that she feigned ignorance puzzles me. It makes me wonder if she doesn't remember our conversation about finding clothes that fit or just didn't believe me when I told her that sizing up doesn't solve the buttcheek problem. Hence my instinct to contact her with a heads-up.

She is your daughter's only teacher, so it's hard to see it from her point of view, but remember that your daughter is not her only student. She can't possibly remember every conversation with every parent no matter how hard she may try. All the more so if she filed it away as "fine, not a real problem," i.e., not something indicating that you can't afford or be bothered to dress your children properly.

Yes, you should communicate with her about this, calmly, whether by email or in a conversation, just to make sure she is up to speed if the social worker talks to her.

[jay-ell]

She is your daughter's only teacher, so it's hard to see it from her point of view, but remember that your daughter is not her only student. She can't possibly remember every conversation with every parent no matter how hard she may try. All the more so if she filed it away as "fine, not a real problem," i.e., not something indicating that you can't afford or be bothered to dress your children properly.

Yes, you should communicate with her about this, calmly, whether by email or in a conversation, just to make sure she is up to speed if the social worker talks to her.

Actually, for the first 2 weeks of the school year, Girlface *was* her only student. And until just before Christmas, she only had four kids in the class. It's a special-ed class, capped at 12, and this is her second year with Girlface. I realize that most people don't remember every conversation they ever have with a person, but I would think that even if she doesn't remember that particular gripe of mine, I would think it would be obvious to someone who has known our family as long as she has that cost is not the issue. Especially since she taught my son when he was 4, and he always had new clothes that fit properly.

This is not a typical student-teacher relationship. She will have Girlface again next year as well. I need to handle this relationship carefully, because I need her cooperation when it comes time for IEPs and Kindergarten placement.

[side_show]

Oh, I didn't realize the teacher had such a significant relationship with your girl.  I still think it's entirely possible that she just forgot.  That the reason why your kids ##### don't fit isn't top of her mind could be a good sign that she has her priorities straight - needless to say, what your kid wears should matter very little in the grand scheme of things.  On the flip side, could it be possible that she's concerned about the situation and doesn't want to offend you?  You can't imagine the number of times people in social services are used as tools to have conversations about things other people are uncomfortable talking about.   I think I mentioned here that I had to coach a social worker through talking to a kid about masterbation.  The reason for that was that his foster parents were pushing the social worker to have the conversation rather than having it themselves.   What can I say other than that a good dose of open dialog will help you figure it out better than stewing ever will.

[wombat]

I would still say that even if it's only 12 students, if they are special ed that's a lot of issues for a teacher to keep track of. Like Smells says, that if the ##### aren't the biggest issue in her mind, that's a good sign about her priorities. The ##### are not her job, she is using the limited space in her brain to keep track of the things about your child that are her job to address.

If she forgot something that is directly relevant to her schooling I can see being upset but seriously, I have been in elementary school classes and I would think that as long as the children are not naked or wearing clothes covered in poop, how they are dressed is the least of the teacher's problems. That's exactly why there's a social worker to pay attention to those details, right?

[AugustWest]

The egg man is making the excuses of the incompetent.

So what you're saying is the social worker should have taken the time and done the research to solve the problem before making a quick phone call to determine if a problem even existed? 

Not very efficient.

Sorry, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  About the only thing I see that she did wrong was in being a little insensitive in her initial approach. 

1. Social worker gets a call about a problem.
2. Asks teacher, gets no useful information.

Logical next step?

a) Do several hours of research on a potential problem which you do not know the nature of due to step 2; OR
b) Make a 30 second phone call and ask the one person with actual information if there's a problem.

If you were paying the social worker (which you are, sort of) which would you consider a more effective use of her limited time?

Also, when you see hoof prints in your corral, is your first reaction that a zebra has been there?