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[jay-ell]

You have described the hipster PDA.

It's a neat concept. I might give it a shot, actually.  Pedro used it for a while, but then he got an iTouch.

After reading this post (well, most of it), I'm now convinced that I have ADHD (on top of being, as Bobby points out, an unrepentant aspie).

I just wonder how much of the difficulties (yours, mine, ours) could be classified as part of ADHD and ASD and how much of it is just stuff that everyone deals with because the human brain is not designed to work linearly? I mean, everybody I know struggles with organization. Even the people who have it together admit that they've spent a lot of time developing and learning a system - they've had to work to make it second nature, because it certainly isn't human nature.

[AugustWest]

Yeah, that system is straight out of Getting Things Done.  I have used a pretty similar system in the past, although I've migrated to Remember the Milk.

In fact, I have recommended an index card based system for my Mother.  She has lost/is losing her memory and is trying to compensate by making lots of little lists.  Problem is she makes lists on myriad little pads of paper and then losing track of the lists.  So I'm trying to get her to make all her notes on index cards which she keeps together and shuffles through. 

[Thomas Pain]

In fact, I have recommended an index card based system for my Mother.  She has lost/is losing her memory and is trying to compensate by making lots of little lists.  Problem is she makes lists on myriad little pads of paper and then losing track of the lists. 

Wow that's exactly what I used to do.  I would loose all my lists, not that they made any sense to me anyway, but I would loose them all to the point where they just may as well have not existed.

I just wonder how much of the difficulties (yours, mine, ours) could be classified as part of ADHD and ASD and how much of it is just stuff that everyone deals with because the human brain is not designed to work linearly? I mean, everybody I know struggles with organization. Even the people who have it together admit that they've spent a lot of time developing and learning a system - they've had to work to make it second nature, because it certainly isn't human nature.

Well it's easy to say that a certain portion of the population does suffer from ADHD. 

Okay, I'll qualify that -- we are in the USA -- I don't think you'll find a 1st world country where the general population is more hostile to science, so a large portion of the population does have beliefs which stem from superstitions and political bias and such, so there is a large portion of the population that believes that ADHD isn't real... More so in the South and Midwest, it seems.  On the subject of ADHD, I have here a book by one "David B. Stein, PhD." titled "Unraveling the ADD/ADHD Fiasco -- Successful Parenting Without Drugs"  It's really hard to say what's more dangerous about this book - the patently false ideas it pedals, or the fallacious methods of reasoning which it teaches the reader.  In the end, it's the same old sad mix of patriarchal, sexist, and classist ethnocentric garbage that not thinking straight always seems to yield.  I'm not saying that the book didn't have a couple of valid premises - it did - but it just went off into left field with them, and the author is unfortunately unable to differentiate between the activities of the medical and scientific professions which are scientifically and statistically valid and those which are not... sure the medical profession has problems, sure there are quacks who are just glorified pill pushes, and sure we have way too many kids on medication who shouldn't be.  But that doesn't automatically turn all of modern medical science into a snake-oil scam...

So, the foregoing not withstanding, certainly, the consensus of the medical and scientific community is that ADHD is a very real and serious disorder which significantly impacts the quality of life of an alarmingly large portion of the population.

But to be able to draw the line between clinical ADHD and just, the normal level of difficulty the average person faces in organizing themselves, that's much more difficult to do on an individual case-by-case basis.  You really have to be an experienced professional - experienced not only with ADHD, but also with psychiatry in general so as to be able to see what else might be going on concurrent with or in lieu of suspected ADHD.  It's relatively rare that you find just ADHD all on it's own.

Of course, while ADHD certainly has been proven to be very real, it's certainly a valid question, and you'd have to be kind of out of it to not ask this question, it's a valid question to ask if the problems that many people with ADHD suffer from are not exacerbated by, or perhaps even caused in whole by, the complex and inherently chaotic nature of our modern life.  Personally, I'm convinced that to a large extent, the answer is yes, that many individuals who have significant dysfunction caused by ADHD in the context of our present day society and culture would not be dysfunctional at all in the context of the culture and social structure several generations ago.  Conversely, many individuals who are dysfunctional today would likely be dysfunctional several generations ago, although perhaps not as significantly.  Taking my personal case, for example, when you trace back up the family tree, you find a consistent pattern of psychiatric symptoms consistent with nervous, anxiety, and inattention, but for the most part most people in the family tree were functional.  Except for that one serial killer, but that was maybe just a one-off case.  But then you get down to my generation, and you look at me, my sibling, and my cousins, and holy shit, you got more dysfunction than you can shake a stick at.  ADHD, anorexia, depression, drug abuse, anxiety, etc.  In my grand parents day, you could be an alcoholic and still run a business.  Now, college kids gots 5 credit cards such as are more complicated to manage in and of themselves than any of the accounts receivable and payable of a small business of yesteryear.  ya with me?  shit's gettin' insane complex these days.

And so, the problem we have here, is, if we can magically cure everyone who has ADHD today, well nothing's 100% with this stuff, but if we can at least cause everyone who HAS ADHD to have ADHD LESS... to the point where they can function and be as happy as everyone else.... it don't matter!  It's moot because all these happy idiots are going to do is they are going to engage in such schemes and dreams as are going to push forward the wheels of modern so-called progress, all of which will only make our lives even more complex!  And then the people who had ADHD to a LESSER DEGREE will then find that they are having ADHD ALL OVER AGAIN as the level of complexity of our life increases. 

So my approach to this complexity of modern life has always been, as much as I can possibly get away with, is to pretend it's not there.  I'm a computer science geek, so I know how this stuff works.  I can pull my motorcycle up to a parking lot toll booth and I know exactly what's going on with the magnetic fields and everything to where I need to position my bike just so to get the toll booth to trigger...  but I don't.  I pull up any which way, and then I sit there as the toll booth person has to call her supervisor to over-ride the gate.  I'm just an ashole about technology that way.  I'm like 'fuk this shit, why is this sht got to be my problem?'  I fckin' hate technology. 

Maybe a better example.. I was at the grocery store, and I was standing in line, and the checkout person tells me he is closed.  And I'm like "it says on your screen that you're open" and he is like "yeah that's cause I'm still finishing this sale.  but the sign behind you says I'm closed."  And I looked, and sure enough, I had not noticed the little placard shoved up among the magazines and such saying he's closed.  So I argued with him and I saw that was pointless, so I went and bitched at the customer service counter for like 5 minutes with this lady, and she simply did not comprehend the concept I was telling her.  if that's what the computer does, then make the computer to not do that in that situation, ya know...

or at the little small town airport where I used to live in the midwest, it had one baggage carousel, and they built it slightly too short.  it curved in basically a circle shape, and everyone would stand around it.  well as it happened, the tiles on the floor around it were a different color when you got 5 feet away from it, and as it happened, if everyone would stand back 5 feet, then the radius of the people circle would be big enough for everyone to fit at the same time without falling over each other.  But no, everyone would rush in as close as possible.  Like they was all retarded or something.  Like they all had ADHD or something. 

So.  yeah.  Life is pretty difficult these days.  Especially when you have ADHD. 

So anyway.  I'm thinking maybe I'll move out to Oregon or Washington or something.  Maybe move into an intentional community.  Maybe start my own one of these days.  Meanwhile I'm working on some theoretical garbage to decomplexify society's organization.  There's way too fcking much idiotic technology and systems and complexity in our lives today.  And it's all garbage, right.  cars, computers, cell phones.  fck all that sht.

okay, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread with my bitching.  I guess in summary, a concealed handgun can be the solution to some of a person's organization challenges.  Especially when the jerk at the grocery store has two signs up that contradict each other. 

[Bobby Isosceles]

okay, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread with my bitching.  I guess in summary, a concealed handgun can be the solution to some of a person's organization challenges.  Especially when the jerk at the grocery store has two signs up that contradict each other. 

I LOL'd

that was very reminiscent of an old Dave Barry piece about using yoga techniques for anger management. Close your eyes, take a deep breath, making sure to inhale slowly and evenly. Think about a peaceful place such as a warm sunlit meadow or a deserted beach, and as you exhale, be sure to slowly and evenly SQUEEEEEEEZE the trigger.

[bluemoon72]

I have Airwolf. This is not code language. I am flying Airwolf because I own Airwolf.

May I go for a ride in your Wolf of the Air?

[wombat]

I've been hoping for a thread where I could mention the fact that a friend of mine in Baltimore has a rat problem in her house, and everything else having failed, she has dealt with it by buying a handgun.  (I mention that it is specifically Baltimore for Bobby's enjoyment.)

[schnitzelbank]

I've been hoping for a thread where I could mention the fact that a friend of mine in Baltimore has a rat problem in her house, and everything else having failed, she has dealt with it by buying a handgun.  (I mention that it is specifically Baltimore for Bobby's enjoyment.)

Now I am picturing rats with Kevlar vests. What sort of animal would one get to deal with Baltimore rats? A cat would not do. Badger, perhaps?

[Bobby Isosceles]

Now I am picturing rats with Kevlar vests. What sort of animal would one get to deal with Baltimore rats? A cat would not do. Badger, perhaps?

A honey badger, of course.


Lick a Honey Badger's shitty ass!
Suck a constipated goat's dick!
Lick a Llama's sweaty balls!
Taste a Panda's shitty ass!

[jaydub]

Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger

[AugustWest]

Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger

Mushroom.

Mushroom.

[Carlos del Vaca]

A snake, a snake, whoooaaah, it's a snake.

[bluemoon72]

Spleen flensing.

[kellichou]

Goodgracious, I know this very, very well.  To my husband, weeknights are out because his work is very stressful, and weekends are out because they are for fun and relaxation.  We could afford a housekeeper, but unfortunately he has "stranger issues" and won't abide a person who is not family or friend in our house--especially when we're not here.  He did agree to have someone come in in the evenings while we're home, but there's really no one around I can find who's licensed and bonded AND willing to work evenings.

Check out Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry & Controlling Men."  It's a great book that describes all sorts of controlling & abusive behavior.  Of course, women and men can be angry and controlling (and Bancroft does acknowledge this in his book, he's worked for years as an expert helping rehabilitate abusers when possible).  I was left scratching my head, saying things like, "OH!  I didn't know that was abusive, now I see why!" 

Another good book recommendation:  Gavin De Becker's "The Gift of Fear."

But seriously, check Bancroft's book out.  I think it should be required reading for all humans, personally.  Oh, just make sure you hide the book so your husband doesn't find it.  Seriously.  Best of luck to you.

[bluemoon72]

Thanks, kellichou, the moment I read your post I ordered the Bancroft book to my Amazon Kindle.  I'll start reading it in about 1 hour and 36 minutes, as soon as I get home from work.    Thanks again.

[theinevitable]

This is an interesting topic, because I have ADHD (inattentive subtype) and my sister is hyper-organized and very anal about it, and she's constantly harping on me about ways I could and should be more organized and all that stuff.  It's caused some friction between us and I've finally convinced her that where she feels she is caring about me and helping me, to me it's her telling me I suck and need to be fixed to be more like her. 

This is me with my roommate, except that he is only anal-organized about school stuff. I found out over break that my suspicion is correct, and he does in fact talk shit about me to all of my friends, "DB is so lazy, DB sleeps too much, DB doesn't do his work." He does all his work in advance, sleeps like 5 hrs a night, writes fiction in his free time, etc.
Does he do dishes, or clean the house, or even fold his laundry? No. He basically lives like an animal.
An animal that works really hard and gets a lot done.

It is hard sometimes to get a reasonable perspective on this. I mean, I feel really lazy sitting next to my roommate. But he works stupidly hard, and is miserable because of it. He is a grumpy, irritable, aggressive person who needs to drink less coffee and get more sleep. Also, stop being incredible pretentious. As it is, he does not get why girls do not want to date him.

I told my girlfriend, who is also super-productive and responsible, that he does this (talk about me) and she said "fuck him, I love you." Which was nice. She does not pester me about things, but it makes me feel really shitty when I realize how many things she is juggling, when I am having trouble doing "school + girlfriend + radio." And before that, I was struggling with just "school + radio." She is more like "school + radio + work + boyfriend + awesome."

I am incredibly unorganized. In school up through partway into high school this was fine, and I did great. College has kind of been a wash. Every semester I say "ok, this is my semester, I am going to challenge myself and work really hard." And then it doesn't happen. Last semester was supposed to be my "easy" semester and I got my worst grades ever. Classes I thought I could put on the back burner came back to bite me in the ass. The classes that should have been hard are the ones I did well in, because I realized there was a lot of work and so I kept it in mind. It also helped that JL edited that paper for me (thanks! I did not get notes back on the final draft, but I think I must have done very well based on my final grade). I am really horrible at using my time in productive ways. The thought of making my time more structured and organized makes me want to die, because... yeah, basically it sounds like hell. There were a few months last year where I got my shit in gear, worked really hard, partied hard on the weekend to blow off steam, and was starting to get into a rhythm... and then something happened, I forget what, and I completely fucked up the end of the semester.
I am into making lists and putting them on post-its... but this thing happens where I'll be sitting there, and suddenly I realize this neon orange post-it is still on my wall from 2 months before.
I am diagnosed as ADD, but I have no idea of what is the ADD and what is just laziness and lack of willpower, etc. I know this is a false distinction, but I can't stop thinking in this way. I am supposed to take medicine, but I am horrible about remembering to take it. I also am not sure how much of a difference it makes at this point... it's hard to tell without taking it consistently.
I have noticed, though, that when I take it I notice things that I have never noticed. For instance, I notice the bright orange post-its that have been on my wall for months.
I am confused because I am told I was diagnosed with "minor" ADD, but I have also been told stories about my mother getting into huge arguments because they didn't want to let me into my (elementary/middle/high) school because I had too many learning issues. I also have, apparently, a really high IQ, but I do not really buy the idea of IQ.

So now I'm looking for a job. Yeeesh.

I try to think a lot about this thing a DJ I like said (Tom Sharpling, on WFMU)... it is not eloquent, but it is true. He was responding to Kanye explaining the Taylor Swift thing with all this bull about "you know, i've had a hard life, i worked hard to get where I am, blah blah blah."
He was like. "Shut up. Shut up. Everything is hard. No one has ever done anything that wasn't hard. Everything has always been hard, for everyone."

I get into a pattern and chug along fuck*ng up for a while, and then I wake up at night and realize that I am doing a horrible job at everything. Like, I cannot think of an area of my life where I would say I am doing my best. Maybe with "being a good boyfriend" stuff.
When I worked at a burrito place a few years ago my boss said once that I was a "hard worker," and I realized I had literally never heard someone say that to me in my life.
It is going to suck in a few years when I decide I want to apply to grad school, and I do not get into grad school. Blargh.

Oh, and for the record, my mom just tells me I need to "work harder." Whatever that means.

I get this too. But I have less of a retort than you do. I do not see, based on your described lifestyle, how you could "work harder."
My friend, who has similar issues as I do, was once describing to me an argument he had with his mom. This quickly turned into us screaming at each other.
WHY DON'T YOU JUST DO YOUR WORK, DANIEL
WHY DON'T YOU TRY BEING ORGANIZED, JACK
HAVE YOU TRIED JUST DOING YOUR WORK, JACK?
etc. It was kind of nice to know that other people get given advice which does nothing except make you angry. "Oh, thanks mom. I'll just work harder. I hadn't thought of trying that."

I also like his rule, "When something comes in that will take you two minutes or less to do, do it NOW."  That's the point where it's diminishing returns on flagging it and coming back to it later.  If you can bang out a reply to that e-mail in 45 seconds, just frickin' do it.  Wish more people did this.

This is a big thing for me. I always think that everything will take a really long time. When I realize that things will not take that long and do them, it is such a good feeling. I think the solution  is that when I list things, I should estimate how long they will take. YEAH.