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[Doc]

My question is as follows: Is your local community so utopian that every real crime has been prevented and solved and every real criminal has been captured and brought to justice? If so, please enlighten the rest of the world as to how you arrived at that situation. If no, then stop looking for cell phones and get back to looking for the rapists, murderers, and thieves.

You could make the argument that if the number of deaths from motor vehicle crashes exceeds the number of murders that you should indeed me putting more money into enforcing petty little rules like this. I don't know if that's the actual case or not though.

[Arachno-capitalist]

You could make the argument that if the number of deaths from motor vehicle crashes exceeds the number of murders that you should indeed me putting more money into enforcing petty little rules like this. I don't know if that's the actual case or not though.

Yeah I guess. But when a family in CT gets their home invaded and mother and daughter are raped and murdered while the father is chained in the basement where he listens to it all happen, that gets in the news. I want my police officers spending more time making sure that doesn't happen and less time bugging me about talking on the cell phone.

[littlefallsmets]

To be fair, I don't know that anything other than a complete police state could make sure that doesn't happen.

That's the sort of thing that the cops can investigate and intercede in once they know it is going on but...

Yeah.

It is also incredibly rare, that kinda thing. So awful that it seems like things such as that happen more often than they do but they're actually really rare.

A dude or a lady getting in a car wreck that really messes some people happens all the time.

[Nabubrush]

Wait, I'm a little confused over this zero-sum game we're playing. Does this mean we should only enforce the laws against the worst crime, and then when we've cleared it up move to the next one? I dfon't think that's the way it works.

Also, people talking on cell phones in the car kill people. They just do. So that's murder, or at least manslaughter, and ought to be dealt with accordingly.

[Arachno-capitalist]

The zero-sum game is that by law enforcement's own admissions they have limited resources. There are X amount of dollars to pay Y amount of officers for Z amount of time. How those officers spend their time must be managed to achieve the ultimate goal of public safety. What is a greater danger to public safety; the person talking on their cellphone or the guy planning to invade a home? What is the most effective way to stop the greater danger? Is it spending time busting criminals who may move on to the home invasion echelon or is it spending time standing on a street corner writing tickets to every person who happens to be on their cellphone while driving? I don't claim to have the answer, but I personally feel like those limited resources should be spent finding and prosecuting the criminals.

[side_show]

I'd be interested in learning more about the stats related to the likelyhood of someone getting murdered vs getting injured in a cell related car accident.  I'm willing to bet that more people are injured seriously in traffic related offenses than by murderers.  For my own selgiraffe reasons, I'd like the police to work on preventing the harm that is most likely to happen to me. 

There are plenty of cops in the high crime area where I live, and some of them are traffic cops, some are beat cops, some homicide cops.  I believe each serves their purpose.  For me, living in an area where shootings happen every week, in spite of plenty of beat cops patrolling the area, the whole "more cops as the solution to serious crime" rings hollow.  What we need more of in my area is prevention and engaged, participatory community members.

[greenkoolayd]

oh god, now I'm imagining the future, when teenagers have conversations where they get self-righteous about friends who talk on a phone in/near a car.
"TALKING AND DRIVING KILLS. YOU'RE AN IDIOT."
"wait, guys, have you ever driven a car? do you know anything about this? I... I'm not talking and driving. I am not even close to doing that."
"MY MOM SAID I SHOULD TAKE YOUR KEYS AWAY."

ok this parallel is not working out as well as it does in my head.

A grade idea and effort, C grade results.

[littlefallsmets]

I guess the question comes down to what law enforcement can actually effectively DO.

Erratic driving in the public sphere is something that a cop on a public patrol can theoretically spot and intercede upon/intimidate people out of doing.

The kind of ultra-violent crime you're talking about fundamentally happens outside of the public sphere and is almost non-preventable if a criminal is systematic about it.

I mean, you aren't going to meet a white person less sympathetic to the police than me. The fact that the local police ran my dad off the city council when I was a kid by framing him for selling liquor to a minor because he wanted to save the local library by not upping the police budget as much as the cops wanted that year, even though they were a small town police force that hasn't had to fire a gun in action in 100 years... a mistrust  of the police is burned into me behind my eyes.

But even I'm sympathetic to the fact that there are tragedies that police can intervene pre-emptively upon effectively and ones they cannot.

There's probably more marginal utility to the effort against erratic driving accidents,  yeah?

[AugustWest]

What is a greater danger to public safety; the person talking on their cellphone or the guy planning to invade a home?

I'm willing to bet that the social costs of automobile accidents exceed the costs of home invasions by several orders of magnitude.  Home invasion is an extremely rare thing, MVAs as a result of distracted driving are extremely common. 

And honestly, in my personal experience, the loss of productivity related to injuries from automobile accidents is very significant.

[Arachno-capitalist]

I'm willing to bet that the social costs of automobile accidents exceed the costs of home invasions by several orders of magnitude.  Home invasion is an extremely rare thing, MVAs as a result of distracted driving are extremely common.

MVAs as a result of distracted are extremely common, but how fatal are they? An overwhelming percentage of auto accidents result in an insurance claim and a trip to the auto-body shop, not the graveyard. A home invasion is a potent and exponentially greater cost per incident.
SC of MVA f(m)=m*500 (This number is small because of the above mentioned dilution of cost relative to the magnitude of the average auto accident)
SC of HI f(h)=h*10,000,000 (The costs of life insurance plus property insurance and the psychological trauma to the victims, etc)
If m=1,000,000 accidents
and h=100 home invasions
SC of MVA=500,000,000
SC of HI=10,000,000,000,000

[Arachno-capitalist]

And honestly, in my personal experience, the loss of productivity related to injuries from automobile accidents is very significant.

I think death and homelessness cause some pretty significant drains on productivity as well.

[side_show]

And honestly, in my personal experience, the loss of productivity related to injuries from automobile accidents is very significant.

WTF?  I wrote that... why does it say AW wrote it?  That is so weird.

** edit: ah shit.  It seems that instead of quoting AW's post, I clicked "Modify" and somehow deleted it... sorry about that AW.  You made some good points there, and unfortunately I fucked it up.  **

[Arachno-capitalist]

Thats what happens when autocrats go nuts with drunken power, side-show. Let this be a lesson to us all.

[side_show]

I wish I were drunk, but I'm stuck at work.  Call it cabin fever.  There was a terrible storm overnight here, and it's still storming.  I'm sitting next to a window, watching it storm, bored out of my skull.  Most of my coworkers couldn't make it in, and I'm only here to provide back up should an emergency come up. 

[Choop]

btw i'm totally stealing fumbduck.