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[nephilim8]

explore the punk rock movement, specifically the stuff that came before the McDLT and after, til about I don't know, 2000? Is that when stuff like Good Charlotte and Coheed and Cambria burst on the scene and ruined everything? (Not that I think that personally, but that's what I've heard.) I remember a conversation about this very thing on the assetbar forums (RIP) but since those have been reduced to a 500 error, perhaps those that remember could help to recreate it?

[theinevitable]

I do not even know how to start explaining or exploring the punk movement.

[wombat]

But Inev this is exactly the sort of thing I would rely on you for!

[side_show]

I have a copy of Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols that I wore out from being on auto play in my old car.  The Sex Pistols have always been what I measure all other so-called punk against.  I don't even consider Good Charlotte to be punk, so if that is your turn off you're on the right track.

[theinevitable]

PART ONE

I have always considered punk to have started with the Ramones. Before that there were bands that definitely sound "punk" on a small number of tracks, but the Ramones were the first band to go 100% in the "so stupid anyone can do it" direction. You can definitely hear the seeds of punk in a lot of garage rock, The Stooges, the MC5, etc.
Around the time of the Ramones there were a lot of bands playing around the country who are considered part of that first wave of Punk, but who do not necessarily sound "punk" to modern ears. On the one hand you have bands like Television. They do not really sound "punk," just... weird. But they were the first band to start playing at CBGB, which was the original punk hot spot. They were also important because they cut their hair off, did heroin, and wore neat clothes (ie, not hippy clothes) or ripped up clothes at their shows. Their original bass player, Richard Hell, got kicked out and started The Voidoids. He wore ripped up clothes, ugly haircuts, etc before anyone else. Also in this scene was a band called the New York Dolls, who were a glam band. They were transvestites and wrote awesome, simple rock riffs. A dude from England, Malcolm Maclaren, came over and saw their potential, and tried to manage them into stardom. It didn't work.

MEANWHILE, back in jolly ol' England, this Maclaren dude decided to try again at this whole "punk" thing. Thus, the Sex Pistols. From a modern perspective, they sound pretty tame to me. But obviously it was different at the time. Luckily this mediocre crud inspired the British punk bands like THE DAMNED and OTHER BANDS I DON'T CARE/KNOW ABOUT. Over there Punk inspired two types of thing:
1. bands that hewed strictly to 3 chords and yelling.
2. bands that went off in awesome insane intellectual arty directions. New Wave, Post-Punk.

This divergence also happened in America, which I am more familiar with.
Category one: Minor Threat, the Bad Brains, and Black Flag took punk and turned it into HARDCORE. Faster, harder, awesome.
Category two: much less pretentious than the British variant. Much less art school, a lot more weirdos.

TO BE CONTINUED WITH THE EXPLOSION OF AMERICAN UNDERGROUND ROCK, INDIE ROCK, ALT ROCK, NOISE ROCK, AND COOL ROCK THAT INEV LOVES.

[wombat]

See that's exactly what I was talking about.

[Victoria Waterfield]

Luckily this mediocre crud inspired the British punk bands like THE DAMNED and OTHER BANDS I DON'T CARE/KNOW ABOUT.

Hey everyone! theinev doesn't care/know about THE CLASH!

[pmcd9]

I like loud, aggressive music, but there needs to be more than that. Good singing, for a start, and a hummable melody. I also like to hear other instruments besides just guitar, bass, and drums exclusively.

I tried to get into punk when it was new. I listened to The Ramones first album and liked it, sorta, but ultimately it's not very satisfying to me. And I've always really dug the danger of The Sex Pistols even though I thought their music was rubbish. They even led me to create fake Punk bands when I was a teenager. There was The Walking Assholes and The Nazis among them, but my love of The Sex Pistols didn't extend to actually listening to their music.

Whenever I find myself listening to Punk rock I like it for a little while, but usually get bored with it pretty quickly.

*of course, as always, there are notable exceptions to this.

[side_show]

I just wanted to also add that, if you're political and/or prefer focused rage, your best bet when it comes to punk may be to check out the local scene.  In my opinion, there's something about angst that is often best tied to a location and grassroots action.  My hubby is into punk in a major way, and putting a purposeful focus on such things seems to really work in his favor. 

[theinevitable]

yeah, I don't give a shit about the clash except for White Riot and a few other songs. Never really gotten what makes them so great. Yeah yeah yeah London Calling. Cool, they made a post-punk album with some classic rock influences and a bunch of filler.

SEE HOW PUNK I AM? KILL YOUR IDOLS!

[KeithHernandez]

Man, their cover of Police and Thieves is the greatest thing ever, what about that..

[theinevitable]

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

[theinevitable]

it came up before when people got mad at me for saying The Clash are not punk. I think I would characterize them as the second category I talked about-- they started out punk, but the stuff of theirs that people like the most is going way beyond "punk." Spanish Bombs? Jimmy Jazz? Guns of Brixton? This is not a punk band. This is a rock band with punk influences.

I am the arbiter of what counts as punk. Me. I decide.

[side_show]

See I once had someone say the Violet Femmes are punk, and no - I like them and all - but they are not punk. 

[pmcd9]

By that rigid standard, hardly any of the so called punk of the nineties and beyond is punk.