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Author Topic: Oh no you dint!  (Read 240600 times)

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theinevitable

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1170 on: December 05, 2014, 12:24:49 am »

After working at the grocery store and feeling like I was living pretty well, and then coming to grad school where people talk about expecting salaries that are multiple times that, and also having grown up with parents who are, um, "upper middle class," amounts of money mean nothing to me anymore. I can't figure out the scale of anything.

I think that the only money thing I have figured out is that married with no kids is where the action is. One-bedroom apartment or house, two salaries. Sounds good. Buying some nice presents for my nieces and nephews a few times a year seems like the right cost/benefit ratio on kid investment. "Cool uncle inev." Unfortunately I am not a rational economic animal and having at least one little person sounds like something I need out of life.

Meanwhile, trying to figure out financing on building affordable housing for this class project and basically... wow, no wonder we don't build enough housing for all those poors.
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jaydub

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1171 on: December 05, 2014, 12:59:13 am »

Dual income, no kids: the DINK lifestyle.  My friends who do that (and there are rather more of them that I think there were in my parents' generation) lead the kind of lives most people think they want: lots of travel, expensive hobbies, new electronic toys, and an average of 3 cats and/or 2 dogs.  The pets are called Furkids, and feature prominently in their wallet photos and phone lock screens.  I've always known I wanted to be a dad though.
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theinevitable

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1172 on: December 05, 2014, 03:31:05 am »

Yeah. As I live more life, I am increasing both in how much I think I want a kid, and how much I think having a kid will totally take away a lot of the things I like and replace them with KID.
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AugustWest

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1173 on: December 05, 2014, 02:58:15 pm »

Yeah. As I live more life, I am increasing both in how much I think I want a kid, and how much I think having a kid will totally take away a lot of the things I like and replace them with KID.

I had my first kid during my last semester of law school and as a result never got to experience that DINK thing.  Let me assure you that the tradeoff you speak of is real.  For me, it's been absolutely worth it but it's unquestionably a huge use of your resources in time and money to have children.  Luckily, I'm still young enough to have some fun now that my kids are grown.  I can start saving for retirement instead of college!
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AugustWest

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1174 on: December 05, 2014, 05:34:12 pm »

ALSO: Tonight we are going to see SANTA CLAUS! And have a TRAIN RIDE! And see a MOVIE! And get free Mrs. Field's COOKIES! And Oggie's PIZZA!

Nice.
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theinevitable

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1175 on: December 05, 2014, 05:46:25 pm »

Yeah, I think doing vaguely what my parents did, timeline wise, is ideal. But maybe with just 1 kid. Have a kid after several years of DINK-dom, when you feel the timing is right.

Although, they had me right when my mom was finishing her PhD. Doesn't seem like purposeful timing to me...

OK, now I just need to get married ASAP so my life plan can take effect.

inev: went on several dates with a very nice/pretty/smart girl, but wasn't sure how much I was into it. Then I got really busy and kept having to delay another date. Now she stopped answering my messages. Maybe for the best? Still doesn't feel great.
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wombat

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1176 on: December 05, 2014, 06:14:05 pm »

The pets are called Furkids

The hell they are. Not in my house, ever.
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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1177 on: December 05, 2014, 08:45:41 pm »

The best thing about a dog is its dogginess, and not that you have a little mascot to dress up and tuck into your purse/pickup.  Although those can be fun on occasion, too.

Best of both worlds:
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pmcd9

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1178 on: December 06, 2014, 02:59:36 am »

ALSO: Tonight we are going to see SANTA CLAUS! And have a TRAIN RIDE! And see a MOVIE! And get free Mrs. Field's COOKIES! And Oggie's PIZZA!

(you can do that stuff without a mini-me but I think the experience lacks something without one)

Subtract the kid and add booze and you are describing me and my friends.

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theinevitable

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1179 on: December 06, 2014, 08:24:23 pm »

The crappy thing about studying something I am really interested in is that it feels like a much more personal failure when I do a bad job. I would really like if both of these papers turned out really good, but I do not have time to read any more for them. I have exams and other projects to work on.

Also this paper I'm writing on the justifications for Historic Preservation is bumming me out. Because none of them hold much water, logically, other than "well, people with certain tastes like the old buildings." Which is pretty weak when it comes down to using money that could be used for something else with a more objective benefit. You can also argue that it's more sustainable to use an old building than build a new one, but that does not really explain having all kinds of aesthetic rules about not replacing window-frames or whatever. Ugh.

Lighter note: just realized I have picked up my dad's habit of unconsciously humming/whistling songs that are thematically related to what I'm doing. Roommate asked what I was humming while we were all sitting in the living room, and... oops.
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wombat

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1180 on: December 06, 2014, 10:57:19 pm »

Historic preservation does not need a logical argument to support it any more than art and music need logical arguments to support them. Everyone who produces art or music could be spending their time and effort on things that have a more "objective" benefit too. It's about living in a world that has beauty and soul and understands where it came from.

I suppose you'd get an F if you handed that in as a paper though, so I'm not recommending it on that level.
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theinevitable

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1181 on: December 07, 2014, 04:36:09 am »

Well, the question isn't whether it should happen at all, it's whether the government should do it. I feel pretty conflicted about the government spending money on cultural stuff. But without government money (or at least tax expenditures) historic preservation would basically only happen when some rich person liked an old building. Maybe cultural preservation is different than just generic arts spending.

Your point is kind of the argument I'm making, though. It is really tempting (and maybe politically necessary) to make an economic argument, but that argument is always going to be weak. Once you start putting a price tag on history, you're going to have to prove that not only is there an economic impact, it's also more "bang for your buck" than any other possible use of funds (there is actually evidence that investing in rehab of old buildings is more efficient than investing in new construction, though). But of course if you make a purely "public history" argument you get into all sorts of "whose history" and conflicting opinions and politics. Also, you know, things cost money.

The current state of the profession seems to be what this author I'm reading calls "essentialism," basically that the value of old buildings is intrinsic and all subjective value judgments should be avoided. The same way we do archaeology, saving the pot sherds and coprolites along with the sarcophaguses and marble statues. But if you try to erase politics you're still gonna end up making value judgments, just not acknowledging them.

At this point my big concern with this paper is that I'm relying almost entirely on two sources. One of which is a literature review. I am kind of confused about the the ground rules (he is calling it a "take-home exam" instead of a paper) so I am going to stop by his office and make sure this is OK. This is something I feel like I missed somewhere-- how legit is it to use something as a source that is just a compilation of analysis of other work. Something about citing someone quoting someone else's writing feels like cheating. The kind of cheating you do accidentally when it's midnight on a saturday and you have tons of other stuff to work on between now and when this paper is due.

This paper is also a response to the phenomenon, including my past self, of white-dude urban planning types looking at fucked up neighborhoods and thinking "wow look at these poor buildings" instead of "wow, these poor people." Trying to challenge myself to justify why we should ever care about buildings. Also the decision to mothball old buildings in St Louis and other declining cities where it's very possible we might NEVER have people to live in them.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 07:51:33 am by theinevitable »
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wombat

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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1182 on: December 07, 2014, 01:27:12 pm »

There's a similar thing in conservation where people try to make the argument that we should save endangered species or nature in general because it has some economic value. It's the "we might find drugs in the rain forest" argument. Someone recently wrote a really good essay on why that is bullshit and we should stop saying it. If only I could remember who it was so I could post it here...

I don't think caring about poor people and caring about old buildings is contradictory. In fact, you think think they are, I'll bet that's part of how historically you end up bulldozing places that have history and soul and building huge soulless apartment complexes that end up being mentally and physically unhealthy places for people to live.  I'll bet if there is an economic argument to be made, that's the direction it should go. People have healthier communities and healthier lives in the kinds of cities we used to build. We don't seem to know how to reproduce that so we better not tear down what we already have.

Also, "never" is a long time. It happens over and over again that neighborhoods change in ways that boggle the mind of people living there. Ask anyone old enough to have lived in Brooklyn before it was fashionable. They will tell you that they were positive it would NEVER cost so much to buy an apartment there, etc.

As for your sources, surely for an exam it's OK to cite a literature review? You're not writing a PhD thesis here.  But this is the sort of question you should never guess about and always ask.
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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1183 on: December 07, 2014, 05:56:50 pm »

It happens over and over again that neighborhoods change in ways that boggle the mind of people living there.

Sometimes I hardly recognize Houston anymore.
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Re: Oh no you dint!
« Reply #1184 on: December 08, 2014, 05:16:47 pm »

As someone who has spent an inappropriate amount of time at art auctions for my age, I can tell you there is plenty of funding for every kind of art. We were literally bidding on individual letters of the Lehman Brothers sign one minute and the next minute bidding on portrait style contemporary art. Those auctions were some sick shit. I got off on the sheer absurdity of it. Dick Fuld ("The Gorilla" former CEO of Lehman) famously told the board room that he would bail out the firm if his wife would just sell some of her art. I now own a piece of her art and he did not bail out the firm.
My point is the government doesn't need to step in and subsidize weird art. There are plenty of us that will subsidize it all on our own at an extreme premium.
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